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Thread: Bob Boone Supporters, Chime in Please!

  1. #31
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    Originally posted by SteelSD


    I don't think I did discount Taylor's Slugging%. In fact, I gave him credit for it. But Taylor's power is not a rarity among spare ML outfielders:

    B Buchanan (SD)- .520 SLG
    A Echevarria (CHC)- .493 SLG
    J Michaels (PHI)- .511 SLG
    T Tarasco (NYM)- .490 SLG
    K Garcia (CLE)- .541 SLG
    R Thompson (MIL)- .626 SLG
    E Perez (STL)- .469 SLG
    W Cordero (MON)- .492 SLG
    A Hyzdu (PIT)- .515 SLG
    J Mabry (OAK)- .576 SLG
    O Merced (HOU)- .472 SLG

    Now, what you're not going to find is a lot of "spare" OF with more AB than those players- mainly because spare OF generally don't get as many AB as Reggie Taylor (and most on this list don't have as many AB).

    What you will find if you check the stats, is that the list of Reggie Taylor-like hitters grows much longer if you expand to include overall OPS instead of just Slugging Percent numbers.
    Well finding 10 or so spare OF with similiar or better SL% is nice, but assuming most teams have 3 spare OF"s, that puts Taylor about 10th of about 80 spare OF's. I don't think it's his fault that he has so many AB's, it just makes his accomplishments all the more imoressive. Some on your list have only recently started playing and their stats are based on few AB's. The remarablr thing for Taylor is that he's been able to keep his SL% respectable even with more playing time, even improving upon it. Most spare's stats decrease with more playing time, such as Ochoa and Tucker.

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  3. #32
    Defying Gravity Super_Barry11's Avatar
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    I wouldn't criticize someone who has a degree in psychology from Stanford!!!
    BARRY LARKIN
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    And made me reach for something more"



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  4. #33
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    Well finding 10 or so spare OF with similiar or better SL% is nice, but assuming most teams have 3 spare OF"s, that puts Taylor about 10th of about 80 spare OF's. I don't think it's his fault that he has so many AB's, it just makes his accomplishments all the more imoressive.
    Now that's funny. You chide me for "excluding" SLG% when evaluation Taylor's prowess as a hitter- yet now you're looking to only his SLG% as an indication that his "accomplishments" are "impressive". If you'd take the time to look up the stats, check overall "spare OF" OPS numbers. Reggie Taylor's are litterally a dime a dozen.

    Some on your list have only recently started playing and their stats are based on few AB's.
    Even disregarding sample size, if Reggie Taylor put up his current stats over a full season of at-bats, his overall OPS would be pedestrian at best.

    The remarablr thing for Taylor is that he's been able to keep his SL% respectable even with more playing time, even improving upon it
    No, the "remarkable" thing is that he still hasn't learned what a walk is. It is not unusual for a non-selective hitter who swings for the fences to put up good SLG% numbers.

    Of course, Taylor's game should be speed. But he's not selective enough at the plate, or adept enough on the bases to take advantage of it. I actually give Taylor less credit because he should be looking to play to his strengths.

    Most spare's stats decrease with more playing time, such as Ochoa and Tucker.
    If a spare's stats decline with playing time, it generally occurs for one of two reasons:

    1) As a "spare" OF, that player is usually hitting with favorable matchups (i.e. RH hitter vs. LHP). When he becomes a starter, that advantage disappears. Taylor's had 26AB versus LHP this season and has put up stats of .151BA/.151OBP/.231OBP.

    2) The player is not very good in the first place- or he wouldn't be in a reserve role.

    You're not really going out on much of a limb by saying "If a player sucks, he'll show it with more opportunity to suck."

    The simple fact is that larger sample sizes tend to bring more consistency (and therefore validity) to statistical performance indicators. If a player's numbers decrease significantly over the long-haul, it demonstrates that he wasn't that good to begin with. What we're seeing with more AB from Taylor is that he's actually less likely to ever learn the selectivity that would make him a solid ML performer.

    The more Taylor plays, the more ammo he gives to those who feel that he's simply an interchangeable spare part with little value. I'm very happy to see that your logic shows that we agree on this

  5. #34
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    Originally posted by SteelSD


    The more Taylor plays, the more ammo he gives to those who feel that he's simply an interchangeable spare part with little value. I'm very happy to see that your logic shows that we agree on this
    Is Taylor replacable? Of course he is. Can you likely get someone better who's cheaper. Prabably not. I stand by my statement that I've made all season that Taylor has been one of the better 24th-25th men on any team. He has speed, defence and power and makes the minimun. He's been one of our better clutch players this season. What more do you want for a spare part? He's not an all star, but why should he be? He's given us everything and more than what we had any right to expect. Taylor for Mercado. Another Bowden steal. He has some value, to be sure. There are players who make $1-2M per year doing what he does. He does it for peanuts. And Guillen is the RH equivilent of Taylor. I'm amazed that the best thing some people have to do is complain about Taylor. If every player on the Reds exceeded their expectations to the degree that Taylor did, we'd have the WS in the bag. Nobody gave him a rat's chance to exceed. Maybe that's why everybody is pissed that he proved them wrong; that's he belongs in the ML.

  6. #35
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    It's funny, Puffy- because I also do see a half-full glass when I look at Taylor. I don't think that he's the worst player in the majors. I think that he has the ability to be an asset to the team, especially as cheap as he is. And if he can learn a bit more selectivity and understand how to make his speed count- he'll be a steal even at the $1M price tag you mention.

    That being said, my Reggie Taylor glass is half full of tap water- not Perrier.

  7. #36
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    Bob Boone...

    "Aaron's bimbo may refuse to marry him if his dad is not a manager."

    LMAO!!!! You are so right, JohnnyVan Der Meer

    Fire Papa Boone LOL J/K
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  8. #37
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Personally, I don't think Lou Pinella or Joe Torre could have done much better with this team (we'd probably be bashing them right now! ).

    Boone's record at KC is not evidence that he is a bad manager. C'mon! We're talking the KANSAS CITY ROYALS here! This organization has been in shambles & disarray for years and years from top to bottom! Talk about having very little talent! They'd have fired Dusty Baker by now too!

    Casey Stengel once said that being a manager was the easiest job in the world when you have a talented team. All he had to do was make out the lineup card everyday .

    I have always been a "fence rider"when it comes to Bob Boone. There are times when his "game time" decisons have me wondering & shaking my head.

    As one other poster on here has stated (and one of my favorite posters too ), Bob Boone is a "match-up" guy, a statistician, and a thinking manager, who is very involved in the game. He's looking at every angle, and trying to gain an advantage. That can be a positive; but it can also work to your disadvantage (which is where he gets the label "micro-manager").

    I'm one who believes in a "set lineup" as much as possible. But this team... due to injuries, and also, just having too many "holes to fill" (position/talent-wise), prevents that from happening.

    We don't have a "lead-off" guy. So we fault Bob for experimenting and trying to fill that need with the talent we have?

    Our star CFer, and main RBI/HR producer has been basically gone. What is Bob Boone suppose to do then when he has to play a Taylor, or call up someone from AAA like a Mateo?

    I've come to the conclusion that Bob Boone is nothing more than a "puppet" whose strings are being pulled more by upper management than anything else when it comes to certain players playing, who gets called up, etc...

    I love Barry Larkin, and with exception of his offensive, he has done a good job at SS this year. But many want him gone, retired, or whatever. If Boone tried to do do that, or if any of us had the opportunity to do so, do you think upper management (i.e. Allen/Bowden) would allow us to make that decision? Don't think so .

    IMO, I think Bob does not possess leadership & motivational skills that are needed. His personality reminds me alot of former OSU coach John Cooper, who cous scout and evaluate talent, but couldn't motivate them to win (he was also a terrible disciplinarian).

    I won't fault Bob Boone for the shoddy/poor play that I've seen out of this team this year. Why do I sat that? because He's playing the people given to him by upper management, and you cn only "squeeze so much juice out of that lemon". He can't hit, field, pitch, and execute for these guys.

    I fully understand that many on here hate Bob Boone. So lets say you get your wish and he is fired. Who is his replacement? And do you actually think that that next guy is going to do much better with this group? I don't! Not until they address some of the "holes" that need to be filled on this team. Guys like Torre, Pinella, and Baker, win because of that talent assembled on the field.

    Finally..."the true quality of a manager is how far they can throw the 1B bag into the OF!"
    Last edited by GAC; 09-03-2002 at 07:22 AM.

  9. #38
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    Exactly my sentiments, GAC. Great post.

  10. #39
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    Originally posted by SteelSD
    It's funny, Puffy- because I also do see a half-full glass when I look at Taylor. I don't think that he's the worst player in the majors. I think that he has the ability to be an asset to the team, especially as cheap as he is. And if he can learn a bit more selectivity and understand how to make his speed count- he'll be a steal even at the $1M price tag you mention.

    That being said, my Reggie Taylor glass is half full of tap water- not Perrier.
    Finally, we agree. But if taylor can even learn to walk 40 -50 times a year, you basically have Juan Encanacion.

  11. #40
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    Originally posted by PuffyPig


    Finally, we agree. But if taylor can even learn to walk 40 -50 times a year, you basically have Juan Encanacion.
    And if he can learn to hit 70 HR, you basically have Barry Bonds.

    What a steal by Jim Bowden!

  12. #41
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    Originally posted by NDRed
    I apologize but I read the Enquirer, Post, and this board just about everyday and I cannot remmeber any such reference. Anybody else? You would think our current manager dissing the greatest player in Reds history would be memorable??????
    I remembered the story too. He was not dissing Pete, just telling is as he saw it. Here is the comment and the link...


    “Look at the Miracle Mets of '69,” Boone said. “They were the Miracle Mets because they could pitch.”

    He pointed to another club — one he was part of — as an example: the 1980 World Series champion Philadelphia Phillies.

    “We got Pete Rose in '79 and won it in '80,” Boone said. “People said Pete was the leader. Who did he lead? He sat at his locker shaving his bat and talking to (Mike Schmidt). He helped Schmitty tremendously. But Pete was the most selfish player ever. All he wanted was to get a hit.

    “You need guys like that. Because when they get the big hit, it helps you.”

    One of the major charges Reese and Young leveled was that there were two sets of rules. That is not uncommon in sports.


    http://reds.enquirer.com/2002/03/03/...orry_were.html

  13. #42
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    Eric the Red comes through once more.

    Thanks for providing the link that I was admittedly too lazy to hunt down.

    Whether we agree or not that Boone was dissing Rose, I interpreted it as a slap at Pete because it sounds like Boone is saying that the team benefits from Rose playing for himself, which - in my mind he never did - rather than giving Rose credit for putting the team ahead of his own stats . To me, Boones "compliment" was mealy-mouthed and smacked of sour grapes.

    The Phillies won after Rose got there because Pete was a Winner. End of story.

  14. #43
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    Originally posted by PuffyPig


    Finally, we agree. But if taylor can even learn to walk 40 -50 times a year, you basically have Juan Encanacion.
    You have got to be joking. This is absurd. Reggie Taylor does not have Juan Encarnacion power. JuanE can hit home runs to any part of the park. Reggie Taylor has to pull the ball to hit it out. Reggie Taylor's track record indicates that he is not really a power hitter. He is a singles hitter who swings for the fences. That approach will only work so well. His approach does not match his abilities in my opinion. If he used the whole field and hit the ball on the ground more, he could be Kenny Lofton. Unfortunately, the more moderate success he has, the more difficult it will become to convince him to adapt an approach that will make him the player that he should be. If Taylor can even learn to walk 40 or 50 times a season, he will be Marquis Grissom, not JuanE. Not completely horrible or useless, but not good enough to take playing time from someone like Mateo. You could argue that Mateo's floor is higher than Taylor's ceiling.

    Anyway, Mateo is already as good as Encarnacion and he doesn't have to improve one bit. He has more power potential and a stronger arm though but a little bit less speed.

  15. #44
    Glenn Braggs
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    Originally posted by Greenhills Pioneer
    You have got to be joking. This is absurd. Reggie Taylor does not have Juan Encarnacion power.
    By just quoting this years stats, Taylor hits 'em out nearly as good as Encarnacion.

    Encarnacion: 21 Homeruns in 481 at bats (= 22 HR in 500 AB)

    Taylor: 8 Homeruns in 200 at bat (= 20 HR in 500 AB)

  16. #45
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    RED THUNDER of course we have many other problems but that still does not make Boone a good mgr so write on and on but the guy will never be a good mgr.He will continue to make a living in the game but will not be succesful from the dugout.You seem to forget that we are all fans and want him to be succesful and that is what is so frustrating HE STINKS!GO CINCY!!!!!


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