Turn Off Ads?
Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 110

Thread: Bob Boone Supporters, Chime in Please!

  1. #61
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, Indiana
    Posts
    15,268
    That's a great idea, RFS62! The only time that anyone was interested in calisthentics, when I was at the Reds fantasy camp, was when they brought the Hooters girls in to lead them one morning. :evilgrin: Everyone was at attention that morning.:evilgrin:

    As far as Boone, and his moves, he had Castro up there to bunt because the percentages showed that he had a better chance to get it down than did Walker. If he had left Walker in, and he had failed, the second guessers here at Redszone would have been jumping up and down because he didn't put someone in that could get a bunt down. I get sick of it. Boone doesn't always make the right moves, but he doesn't always make the wrong ones. Players at this level should be able to execute the fundamentals of baseball. Plain and simple. The good teams do. It is as much mental as it is physical.

    I'm not the biggest fan of Bob Boone, and I'm not sure that he is the man to take this team to the next level, but he is far from the worst manager that we could have. We're not that far removed from Jack McKeon, who I thought was a great character and person, but far removed from being a quality manager. Good players that execute the fundamentals make good managers. I guess when that doesn't happen, the manager gets the blame. Always been that way, and always will, I guess. Too much credit when winning and too much blame when losing.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #62
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    34,346
    Originally posted by RFS62
    Using Jennifer as a manager would be a tremendous waste of talent.

    I see her as trainer and strength coach. I'll bet nobody would ever, ever miss pre-game stretching again with her running the show!!
    Stretching, hell! What about Jumping Jacks?!
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160

  4. #63
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Out Wayne
    Posts
    22,764
    November 1, 2002: In a press conference earlier today, Cincinnati Reds general manager Jim Bowden introduced new Reds manager Jennifer Love Hewitt. In her first personnel moves, Hewitt announced that the Reds new hitting coach would be Halle Berry and the Reds new trainer would be Kiana Tom. Hewitt stated that she was sure that Berry's former marriage to David Justice qualified her to be a hitting instructor, as evidenced by the number of Reds players requesting special instruction time from the new coach. Hewitt further noted that Reds player representative Aaron Boone had requested that spring training begin on November 15 so that the new trainer could get the Reds in peak condition.
    Bowden expressed optimism that the Reds starting pitchers would complete more games next year, since they would not want to take an early shower before the rest of the team, including the coaching staff, went to the showers.
    Bowden also announced that in a cost cutting move, all Reds players will be expected to share a room with another player or coach while on the road; surprisingly, no player protested the loss of private rooms, with an umnamed player saying he was willing to room with the manager or one of the coaches if that would help the team.
    In other news, Rafael Palmeiro has requested that the Rangers trade him to the Reds, claiming that he told Kenny Rogers that Cincinnati was the best baseball town in America.
    There is also a report that former President Bill Clinton has purchased season tickets at GAB for the 2003 season, although the former president was disappointed to learn his seats would not be in the dugout.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  5. #64
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    4,949


    You guys are killing me.

  6. #65
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, Indiana
    Posts
    15,268




  7. #66
    All dyslexics must untie!
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    SW Portland, OR
    Posts
    8,604
    Who's responsible for the team's execution of the fundamentals? The manager? The coaching staff? The veteran players? Every player, for his own performance?

    I'm not going to tell you what I think, because the ultimate answer is probably "yes" to all of the above. But I will relate an anecdote that Larry Bowa shared, earlier this year. This probably occured in 1980, the same year that Boone said Rose was sitting at his locker, talking only to Schmidt.

    Bowa said that he came to the plate with a runner on 1st and less than 2 outs (or perhaps it was a runner on 2nd, with no outs) Whatever, Larry hit a medium-deep fly ball to left. When he got back to the dugout, Pete beckoned him over. Bowa was expecting some batting tips (or a "hang with 'em") but instead Rose asked tersely "what the @#$% were you thinking" (or words to that affect) So, in this case, on this contending team, the veteran player was reinforcing the basic fundamentals to the young player--and the "kid" still remembered the lesson, 20-odd years later.

    Now...I'm not gonna point fingers, but I will say the 2002 Reds could've used more of this correctional "attitude" when their fundamentals (baserunning, defense, situational hitting, etc) were consistently executed poorly. Maybe the veteran players were deferring to the coaching staff? Maybe the coaches were deferring to the Mgr? Regardless, the "message" wasn't getting through, based on the team's play on the field, from April through August.
    Last edited by gm; 09-06-2002 at 11:49 AM.
    Never overlook the obvious

  8. #67
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Bellefontaine, Ohio
    Posts
    26,665
    Excellent post gm! And I can tell ya this too... no one ever had to go over and remind players like Rose about playing the fundamentals of the game, cause he used them whenever he stepped out onto that field.

    Today's players are a completely different breed altogether, and I think alot of has to do with the huge amounts of money they are paid. It has not only affected the attitude of today's players, but also altered the way that management deals with them.

    If you're a manager who comes down on a ballplayer, or is not afraid to get in a player's face, you're soon given a "label". And when it comes down to it... the manager will most of the time be the odd man out, while the player is coddled. Its alot easier to replace the manager (they don't have a union ).

  9. #68
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, Indiana
    Posts
    15,268
    Not long ago, someone posted a story about Joe Morgan relating how veteran players of his era "passed down" to the younger players, the way the game was supposed to be played. It was not uncommon in that era for veterans to pull younger players aside and firmly explain to them how to be a major leaguer, both on and off the field. That is exactly what is missing in today's game. The "ME" attitude of today's players is sickening. I would think that it would be very hard for a coach, who is making very little in comparison to the player's salaries, to pull someone aside and give them the "what for" about not executing, and even if they do, I would say that a lot of players just blow them off or run to the GM. (Denis Menke and Tim Foli made reference to this several times when I was at Reds baseball heaven. Menke made several references to the clubhouse leader from 1990 that so many of you think is the "clubhouse god" of "clubhouse gods")

    Look no further than the USA loss last night in basketball. They had superior talent, but they didn't know anything about playing as a team. They were defeated by pick and rolls, backdoor cuts to the hoop, and a total denial of "self" for "team".

    All the Slam Dunks, Dunking with elbows, 4 minute homerun trots, and one handed catches do not win ballgames. These games are still team games. Unfortunately, there are not many team players left.

  10. #69
    RedSchmo
    Guest
    Originally posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC
    I'm not the biggest fan of Bob Boone, and I'm not sure that he is the man to take this team to the next level, but he is far from the worst manager that we could have. We're not that far removed from Jack McKeon, who I thought was a great character and person, but far removed from being a quality manager. Good players that execute the fundamentals make good managers. I guess when that doesn't happen, the manager gets the blame. Always been that way, and always will, I guess. Too much credit when winning and too much blame when losing.
    Now, this is the kind of "blind eye" mentality towards Bob Boone that amazes me. Saying Mckeon was far removed for being a quality manager, implying Boone is a better alternative is ridiculous. What evidence do you have that Boone is better than McKeon?

    I agree McKeon is not a great manager, and he never won a championship as a manager. But in 1997-1999 he took a team (that won 47.5% of their games for Ray Knight) and proceeded to win 53.1% of his managed games only to see Bob Boone take that team and win 44.2% of his managed games so far. Now you cannot possibly tell me that the team all of a sudden became more talented for 2 1/2 years, only to suddenly lose that talent again immediately. Also, please don't tell me about injuries because those teams McKeon managed were some of the most injury riddled Reds teams.

    McKeon a worse option than Boone? No way, I'll take McKeon every time despite his ideosyncrasies.

    Under McKeon, the Reds outperformed their skill level. Under Boone, they have underperformed for their talent.

    McKeon won 51.2% of his games as a manager in total, not great - but you talk about some poor teams to manage. Bob Boone, yeah he coached the lowely Royals, but he had about a .450 winning percentage coming in to the Reds, and he has about that with the Reds. Isn't that enough evidence that Boone isn't the answer?


    Oh, by the way... I knew you fellas would have some fun with the Jennifer Love Hewitt management skills!!!


  11. #70
    RedSchmo
    Guest
    Originally posted by gm
    Who's responsible for the team's execution of the fundamentals? The manager? The coaching staff? The veteran players? Every player, for his own performance?

    I'm not going to tell you what I think, because the ultimate answer is probably "yes" to all of the above. But I will relate an anecdote that Larry Bowa shared, earlier this year. This probably occured in 1980, the same year that Boone said Rose was sitting at his locker, talking only to Schmidt.

    Bowa said that he came to the plate with a runner on 1st and less than 2 outs (or perhaps it was a runner on 3rd, with no outs) Whatever, Larry hit a medium-deep fly ball to left. When he got back to the dugout, Pete beckoned him over. Bowa was expecting some batting tips (or a "hang with 'em") but instead Rose asked tersely "what the @#$% were you thinking" (or words to that affect) So, in this case, on this contending team, the veteran player was reinforcing the basic fundamentals to the young player--and the "kid" still remembered the lesson, 20-odd years later.

    Now...I'm not gonna point fingers, but I will say the 2002 Reds could've used more of this correctional "attitude" when their fundamentals (baserunning, defense, situational hitting, etc) were consistently executed poorly. Maybe the veteran players were deferring to the coaching staff? Maybe the coaches were deferring to the Mgr? Regardless, the "message" wasn't getting through, based on the team's play on the field, from April through August.
    GM - very good post, and I agree Leadership is lacking in the Reds right now, from the top to the bottom. I do not believe Bob Boone is the only leadership "gap" this team has. However, if you fill that gap, you may go a long way towards identifying the other leadership holes.

  12. #71
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Out Wayne
    Posts
    22,764
    For almost as long as baseball has been played, older players and fans have been complaining that the current generation of players don't know the fundamentals of the game, don't play hard enough, are only interested in the big money, etc, so I hesitate to join in the above posts because of the possibility we are all engaging in "Old Fogeyism." That said, yes it does bother me to see four minute HR trots, particularly when the ball doesn't actually clear the fence and the hitter winds up with a single when he could have had extra bases had he ran hard from home plate. This lack of hustle is probably one reason there are ralatively few triples in modern major league baseball. I grew up on the baseball of the mid-1960's to mid-1970's. If a hitter showed up a Gibson or Drysdale with a four minute HR trot and bows to the crowd, Gibson or Drysdale would've seen how well the hitter could do from the prone position the next time up. The BRM greatly benefitted from the leadership of Rose, Morgan, Perez, et al, making sure the game was played right. One reason for the Yankees recent dominance has been they have had fundamentally sound players
    with leadership skills.
    But what can a team do? I like a guy like Chris Stynes, who hustles and plays the game right, but would you really want Stynes rather than Barry Bonds? I hate four minute HR trots, but I like home runs. I agree that the Reds need better leadership, but I don't have a solution to offer......other than of course naming Jennifer Love Hewitt as manager.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  13. #72
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, Indiana
    Posts
    15,268
    If you want McKeon back as manager, Redschmo, have at it. I just cannot join in that "blind eye" mentality as you put it. McKeon was not a good manager, and I would not wish his managerial skills on the Los Angeles Dodgers, although I would get a kick out of watching him fall off the dugout bench in Chavez Ravine.

    Again, I'm not the biggest fan of Bob Boone, but I'm not sure why he has as many antagonists as he does. Maybe the Reds are not as talented as this board thinks they are and the expectations are too high.(Expectations were pretty low from most of the posters last winter and most of the early spring) The minor league talent that they rolled out for most of last year certainly wasn't a pretty sight. Players certainly have not played up to the talent expectations that has suddently skyrocketed since spring. It's all Boone's fault, I know. I've heard all the arguments, but I watch a lot of baseball, and I see the same type of moves being made by the majority of the managers in the game. When their horses are not just going out and decimating the opposition, they start trying to make things happen. Boone is not much different than the rest. When things work out, they are considered geniuses. When they don't, they're considered bums.

    There are only a few "really good" managers in the game right now, and the Reds management is not going to pay the kind of money that it takes to bring one of these proven guys in. They have two choices. Go with a guy like Boone, who is not so different than the rest of what is out there, or go with a young guy that is trying to make his mark.( Or you could bring in Jack McKeon and watch him sit on his hands and sleep at the helm. That sounds like a good option )

    Either way, you are rolling the dice, or of course, "you" can have Jack McKeon again. Personally, I'll pass on that option every time.

  14. #73
    The wino and I know bucksfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    NW OHIO
    Posts
    3,039
    Hey, c'mon now Randy - let's get this thread back on track with the Jennifer Love Huge--errrrr...... Hewitt managerial theme!
    "I'm virtually free to do whatever I want, but I try to remember so is everybody else..." - Todd Snider

  15. #74
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Gaithersburg, MD
    Posts
    179
    Randy,

    How articulate and orignial on your criticism of McKeon?
    Or you could bring in Jack McKeon and watch him sit on his hands and sleep at the helm
    . Beat a dead horse with that routine but face the facts that the 99 team with no where near this talent level exceeded expectations and finished the season 30 games over .500. Redschmo indicated that he was not great, I agree, but his style, although laidback, got results. Minus the veterans (Larkin and Vaughn), McKeon had a great relationship with all the kids and they mostly had career years. Was this by coincidence or just his positive style with the kids was enabling? I would not want McKeon back nor would he ever want to come back but there are a few reasons why this team has not performed well.

    b. Lack of leadership from Bowden, and a few veterans.
    c. Expectations from some which lead to pressure and failure
    d. Pitching is very weak and has been for last 5 years.
    e. Individuals vs team concept

    On the same subject, who are the "great managers" and what makes them so great. Just remember, Joe Torre was a horrible manager with a sub .500 record prior to managing the Yankees. Do you think he changed or the players were different?
    Last edited by RedDog; 09-06-2002 at 10:16 AM.
    UNC - God's Country

  16. #75
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, Indiana
    Posts
    15,268
    What happened the following year? No matter how you present your case, lI will not agree with any assumption that Jack McKeon is a good manager. (as much as that may surprise red-in-la. I defended him blindly against red's criticism, which I mostly agreed with) A blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and them, and McKeon was a blind squirrel in my opinion.

    If a manager has good leadership skills and the ability to communicate with players that respect him, he has the chance to become a great manager. The three ingredients that they all need to be successful are these: Great players, and something that you mentioned. A group that puts team in front of individual acomplishment. The last is a lot of luck.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25