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Thread: Hoosier Hoops

  1. #961
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    How in God's green world is Bobby Knight-- who shot a man, isn't allowed in Puerto Rico because of his actions there, and eventually got fired because he choked another human being (among other things)-- considered good, while Cal, who has none of that baggage, considered questionable?

    Knight's colorful, quoteable, and was once a great coach. That's pretty much all you can say that's "good" about the man.

    Meanwhile, Calipari has literally been the driving force behind three separate HUGE fundraising drives for underpriviledged around the country and world.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  3. #962
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    Perfect example of an Indiana fan right there.

    Do you know that Indiana has only beaten Kentucky 5 times in the last 21 meetings?

    Keep whining about Cal, though, it suits you.

    Let me guess, you worship Bobby Knight? One of the worst human beings walking this planet.
    And you're post doesn't seem like an arrogant Kentucky fan's post?


    Thanks everyone for ruining one of my favorite threads.

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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    How in God's green world is Bobby Knight-- who shot a man, isn't allowed in Puerto Rico because of his actions there, and eventually got fired because he choked another human being (among other things)-- considered good, while Cal, who has none of that baggage, considered questionable?

    Knight's colorful, quoteable, and was once a great coach. That's pretty much all you can say that's "good" about the man.

    Meanwhile, Calipari has literally been the driving force behind three separate HUGE fundraising drives for underpriviledged around the country and world.
    You forgot to mention that Knight never had a whiff of NCAA violations and had an excellent graduation rate. Knight did more for people than you will ever know but he was never and is not a saint by any stretch.

    Has any of Bob Knight's final four trips or national championships ever been vacated?
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.

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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Vacated why? If you're going to play the game, play it fairly now.

    Calipari told the NCAA about Camby, and any coach in America would had his Final Four vacated with the Rose situation.

    Cal's teams, btw, have a very fine GPA, tied with Vandy for the SEC high. I don't know how his team's 3.0 gpa match up with others, but I doubt they're far below anyone-- and likely far ahead of most.
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Vacated why? If you're going to play the game, play it fairly now.

    Calipari told the NCAA about Camby, and any coach in America would had his Final Four vacated with the Rose situation.

    Cal's teams, btw, have a very fine GPA, tied with Vandy for the SEC high. I don't know how his team's 3.0 gpa match up with others, but I doubt they're far below anyone-- and likely far ahead of most.
    Even if Cal is not "guilty" of anything personally he is the leader of the program and sets the tone for his athletes, to claim he had nothing to do with anything that caused his Final Four's to be vacated is asinine in my uneducated opinion. I know when I look at Calipari or listen to him talk I just feel a little dirty.

    That said we should all just agree to disagree and move on and get this thread back on track.
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.

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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfanmia View Post
    Even if Cal is not "guilty" of anything personally he is the leader of the program and sets the tone for his athletes, to claim he had nothing to do with anything that caused his Final Four's to be vacated is asinine in my uneducated opinion. I know when I look at Calipari or listen to him talk I just feel a little dirty.

    That said we should all just agree to disagree and move on and get this thread back on track.
    You may want to revisit your dictionary about the word 'asinine'.

    He had nothing to do with the Final Fours being vacated. Nothing. Nada. Zip.

    You may think he did, but you'd be wrong.

    And yeah, we should definitely move on, as you all will never change your unfounded opinions despite the facts.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    Perfect example of an Indiana fan right there.

    Do you know that Indiana has only beaten Kentucky 5 times in the last 21 meetings?

    Keep whining about Cal, though, it suits you.

    Let me guess, you worship Bobby Knight? One of the worst human beings walking this planet.
    I like how you've tried to turn my post into how Kentucky is better and has beaten IU more and throw a little Bobby Knight into the mix too.

    Perfect example of a Kentucky fan there. Can't debate the merits of the argument and instead tries pointing to other irrelevant factors.

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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Alright enough!
    Though given the bloodbath going on, I'm not sure ranking the people who would be higher than Knight on the worst person in history list might be more enjoyable.
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    I like how you've tried to turn my post into how Kentucky is better and has beaten IU more and throw a little Bobby Knight into the mix too.

    Perfect example of a Kentucky fan there. Can't debate the merits of the argument and instead tries pointing to other irrelevant factors.
    And, because you have no proof to make nor any argument of merit of your own, you ignore those that have provided both.

    Typical IU fan, I suppose?
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    And your personal opinion means absolutely nothing.

    Again, Calipari has NEVER been in trouble with the NCAA, has never been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

    And it's not like they're looking the other way-- Yahoo Sports investigators and at least one other reporter spent six months looking this past year after the Kanter deal and the allegations of a $200,000 payment to Anthony Davis' father were attributed to an unnamed college coach.

    They found nothing.

    As to the "allegations" you're spewing:

    The Camby case does indeed speak for itself. Calipari was the one who turned in his star player. He noticed the new threads, the nice jewelry, asked the kid (who then tearfully told him what had happened), then told the NCAA. Some coaches-- like, oh, the last one at Indiana-- would have kept that to themselves.

    If hiring a Dad so that his son could play at a college is odious, is Calipari the only one you'll dog about that, or are you also going to get on Larry Brown and about a hundred other NCAA coaches as well? Would it change your mind at all if you knew that Calipari kept Milt Wagner on his staff for years after his son left? For that matter, as to Dejuan Wagner, you do know that Calipari insisted the kid go pro rather than stay another year in college? He knew it would affect his team negatively, yet he went so far as to tear up Wagner's scholarship papers.

    Kanter has been covered ad nauseum. Others that were paid were considered amateurs. The only difference between Kanter and others was that Kanter's father physically took the money from the professional team rather than allowing for tutors as necessary expenses.

    The 500 win brouhaha is all on the NCAA and UK. There was no real celebration-- he received a game ball, it was announced in front of the home team fans after the game, and he went on with his typical after-game gig. There was no cake, no huge spectacle, none of that. That the NCAA "hammered" Kentucky for it, BTW, proves the point that Calipari couldn't get away with "being slimy"; if they'd send a seven-page letter on this, what would they actually do if he were guilty of serious allegations?

    Finally, I'm not thin-skinned about Calipari. I'm thin-skinned about people who throw around allegations without an ounce of proof. Then act like it's someone else who has the problem.
    Thin skinned, indeed!

    Again, Calipari has NEVER been in trouble with the NCAA, has never been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
    This is a poor argument. I could go shoplift a pack of gum from the grocery store and not get caught. Does that mean I'm clean?

    And it's not like they're looking the other way-- Yahoo Sports investigators and at least one other reporter spent six months looking this past year after the Kanter deal and the allegations of a $200,000 payment to Anthony Davis' father were attributed to an unnamed college coach.

    They found nothing.
    Did you read my post? It seems as if you did not. My issue was that Cal likely knew of the benefits, but even if he didn't, he still tried to defend Kanter as an amateur after. That's arrogance or ignorance right there.

    The Camby case does indeed speak for itself. Calipari was the one who turned in his star player. He noticed the new threads, the nice jewelry, asked the kid (who then tearfully told him what had happened), then told the NCAA. Some coaches-- like, oh, the last one at Indiana-- would have kept that to themselves.
    Show me a quote where Cal said he turned Camby in please. No prognostications or purported stories, I want a real quote from Cal.

    Regardless, Calipari was the coach and Camby was under his tutelage. Calipari is responsible for Camby and his actions involving the sport of basketball, period.

    Cal was a great supporter of his kids grades, including Camby too, right?

    http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/20/sp...pagewanted=all

    What has Cal's graduation rate been for his career? How many of his players have been ins some sort of academic trouble? Do you know Scrap Irony?

    Why did Cal bolt for the NBA when the investigation was underway? And why did he leave for Kentucky when there was fire in Memphis with Rose & Dozier? Cal reminds me of Pete Carroll. Cal was the coach when Rose allowed his brother to travel to the games for free and that is a violation. Are you claiming he had no knowledge of that? Then you have the test score scandal too. Cal is the coach, his players play for him. Did he ever speak out against the issues with Rose? If he did, I sure don't remember it.

    As for Sampson at IU, I've never tried to defend him. That's the difference between us! He was shady and he was rightly ousted (in the middle of a season, mind you) and set the program back several years. I'm glad he's gone.

    If hiring a Dad so that his son could play at a college is odious, is Calipari the only one you'll dog about that, or are you also going to get on Larry Brown and about a hundred other NCAA coaches as well? Would it change your mind at all if you knew that Calipari kept Milt Wagner on his staff for years after his son left? For that matter, as to Dejuan Wagner, you do know that Calipari insisted the kid go pro rather than stay another year in college? He knew it would affect his team negatively, yet he went so far as to tear up Wagner's scholarship papers.
    I can't harp too much since the NCAA has allowed it, but I certainly frown upon it as I think it's a shady practice. To the best of my knowledge, IU has never resorted to it.

    The 500 win brouhaha is all on the NCAA and UK. There was no real celebration-- he received a game ball, it was announced in front of the home team fans after the game, and he went on with his typical after-game gig. There was no cake, no huge spectacle, none of that. That the NCAA "hammered" Kentucky for it, BTW, proves the point that Calipari couldn't get away with "being slimy"; if they'd send a seven-page letter on this, what would they actually do if he were guilty of serious allegations?
    As I said before, did Cal forget how many wins he had? Did he forget about the vacated seasons? It's either arrogance or ignorance. He could have stopped the celebration or said something and he didn't.

    Lastly, I didn't see you respond about Dan Garcia? Are you going to defend that too?

  12. #971
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Well as for bball versus the sins of coaches, I'm seeing a 3 dependence and it gets ugly pretty fast when they aren't falling. Zeller isn't picking up the slack near enough.
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Well as for bball versus the sins of coaches, I'm seeing a 3 dependence and it gets ugly pretty fast when they aren't falling. Zeller isn't picking up the slack near enough.
    I'm not sure a lot of teams care particularly good w/o their shots falling or their inside game picking up the slack. The real problem has been lack of defense and far too many turnovers. Hopefully that will fix itself.
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  14. #973
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Wow, Kentucky fans sure seem thin skinned! But while we're at it, Cal is hardly a model citizen.

    Camby speaks for itself.

    I think hiring Dajuan Wagner's dad was questionable, though I'm sure UK fans will try to point to the fact that he was there after Wagner declared for the NBA. Hiring Tyreke Evans' strength coach was questionable too.

    I think Cal tried to pull a fast one with Kanter. The fact that he continued to maintain he was an amateur despite the benefits received prior solidified that.

    Then you have Dozier and Rose. I won't put that all on Cal, but it happened on his watch and you can't ignore that when you consider all of the other questions surrounding Cal.

    I think it's also strange that Cal would try to celebrate 500 wins with 2 vacated seasons. It reeks of either ignorance or arrogance. Which was it?

    Anyone remember Dan Garcia as well? What a nice guy Cal is!

    I would be shocked if it doesn't come out that Cal has more scandals. He just reeks of a slimy guy, my personal opinion.
    I think Scrap hit pretty much all of these points head on (and he isn't even a UK fan). But i'll join.

    I think hiring Dajuan Wagner's dad was questionable, though I'm sure UK fans will try to point to the fact that he was there after Wagner declared for the NBA. Hiring Tyreke Evans' strength coach was questionable too.
    I can name coaches other than Cal who have done the same thing. Bill Self hired Mario Chalmers dad to a director of BBall operations job as well. Does that make him shady? When Chris Duhon played at Duke, his mother was given a job in Durham by a Duke supporter. I guess Coach K should have known about that.

    My favorite though is Shabaka Lands, a U of L assistant who was hired by Pitino because of his connections to Marquis Teague (an Indiana native). When Teague chose to play at Kentucky over Louisville, Lands was relieved of his duties.

    I'm surprised nobody mentioned Cal recruiting CJ Henry, who's brother, Xavier, was a top SG prospect and committed to Memphis before Cal left for Kentucky.

    I think Cal tried to pull a fast one with Kanter. The fact that he continued to maintain he was an amateur despite the benefits received prior solidified that
    What the NCAA did with this ruling was ludicrous. Not so much because of what it did to UK (we made the FF without Kanter), but because the ruling is going against everything the NCAA says they want to promote, which is international talent. Kanter accepted money, but as Scrap said, the money that was accepted was put toward tuition and schooling so he could improve himself academically to play in the United States.

    How do you think the Kanter ruling is going to affect international players coming to play collegiate sports in the US? European basketball is one of the shadiest businesses around where teams hold talented players for ransom for a high priced buyout. (Ricky Rubio) College would have likely been an alternative for some of these players, but I see the current "draft and stash" routine continuing.

    The 500 win brouhaha is all on the NCAA and UK. There was no real celebration-- he received a game ball, it was announced in front of the home team fans after the game, and he went on with his typical after-game gig. There was no cake, no huge spectacle, none of that. That the NCAA "hammered" Kentucky for it, BTW, proves the point that Calipari couldn't get away with "being slimy"; if they'd send a seven-page letter on this, what would they actually do if he were guilty of serious allegations?
    This is where I wish Kentucky would have told the NCAA to go to hell. What made it worse is that after the NCAA made a big deal about it, it was uncovered that San Diego State's head coach Steve Fisher celebrated a similar milestone without wins that had been vacated from his time at Michigan.

    The NCAA grasps at straws when it comes to Cal and for good reason. Cal has been outspoken about how the NCAA needs either reform or done away with. Cal has even gone as far as to suggest the four "superconferences" with a football playoff that would allow for teams to pay student athletes.
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Well as for bball versus the sins of coaches, I'm seeing a 3 dependence and it gets ugly pretty fast when they aren't falling. Zeller isn't picking up the slack near enough.
    I don't think that's it. They took 21 threes but 7 or 8 of those were in the last few minutes in desperation time. The problem was 13 turn overs in the first half and also letting Smith have the half of his life. The second half was ok.


    They're tied for 241st in the nation in 3 pointers attempted per game at 16 per, only 1 more than Ohio St. They shoot it well but they don't rely on it. I don't know how else I can say it.

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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    I think Scrap hit pretty much all of these points head on (and he isn't even a UK fan). But i'll join.



    I can name coaches other than Cal who have done the same thing. Bill Self hired Mario Chalmers dad to a director of BBall operations job as well. Does that make him shady? When Chris Duhon played at Duke, his mother was given a job in Durham by a Duke supporter. I guess Coach K should have known about that.

    My favorite though is Shabaka Lands, a U of L assistant who was hired by Pitino because of his connections to Marquis Teague (an Indiana native). When Teague chose to play at Kentucky over Louisville, Lands was relieved of his duties.

    I'm surprised nobody mentioned Cal recruiting CJ Henry, who's brother, Xavier, was a top SG prospect and committed to Memphis before Cal left for Kentucky.



    What the NCAA did with this ruling was ludicrous. Not so much because of what it did to UK (we made the FF without Kanter), but because the ruling is going against everything the NCAA says they want to promote, which is international talent. Kanter accepted money, but as Scrap said, the money that was accepted was put toward tuition and schooling so he could improve himself academically to play in the United States.

    How do you think the Kanter ruling is going to affect international players coming to play collegiate sports in the US? European basketball is one of the shadiest businesses around where teams hold talented players for ransom for a high priced buyout. (Ricky Rubio) College would have likely been an alternative for some of these players, but I see the current "draft and stash" routine continuing.



    This is where I wish Kentucky would have told the NCAA to go to hell. What made it worse is that after the NCAA made a big deal about it, it was uncovered that San Diego State's head coach Steve Fisher celebrated a similar milestone without wins that had been vacated from his time at Michigan.

    The NCAA grasps at straws when it comes to Cal and for good reason. Cal has been outspoken about how the NCAA needs either reform or done away with. Cal has even gone as far as to suggest the four "superconferences" with a football playoff that would allow for teams to pay student athletes.
    See my later post, which speaks further to Cal. Not sure why you didn't respond to that one instead as I feel like most of these things were covered there.


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