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Thread: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

  1. #46
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels View Post
    I guess that's all true, but I was mostly annoyed because rock shows began to be populated by flannel wearing poseurs, and then Green Day happened and I almost felt like dropping out of society altogether.

    It stinks when stuff gets co-opted.
    True enough. Felt the same way myself, but the alternative was a wet generational fuse that never got lit.

    And isn't it better that the poseurs moved in that direction than some others? IMO, we drink better beer because of it now. Metropolitan living bounced back because of it. I like to think it created demand for authenticity amongst those who otherwise would have lapsed into a repeat of the previous generation.

    I don't care how early or late you came to it, you're better off for having been in a pit. I like the notion that lurking somewhere in the most buttoned-up business drones of our generation is someone who once felt the urge to bounce off of strangers to the harmonious strains of "Stay Away."
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  3. #47
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    True enough. Felt the same way myself, but the alternative was a wet generational fuse that never got lit.

    And isn't it better that the poseurs moved in that direction than some others? IMO, we drink better beer because of it now. Metropolitan living bounced back because of it. I like to think it created demand for authenticity amongst those who otherwise would have lapsed into a repeat of the previous generation.

    I don't care how early or late you came to it, you're better off for having been in a pit. I like the notion that lurking somewhere in the most buttoned-up business drones of our generation is someone who once felt the urge to bounce off of strangers to the harmonious strains of "Stay Away."
    Well friggin said.

    I didn't mean to come off as an elitist, but when I was younger I was much more easily annoyed than I am now. I think I took too much pride in already having the records that everyone else was just discovering. I didn't take the time to realize how cool it was that people were noticing things that I held near and dear. Taking a liking to them, even. That WAS pretty dad gum cool.

    I got that Lasseiz Faire stare thing going nowadays, although some of my close friends would beg to differ.
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  4. #48
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels View Post
    Yeah. I was a regular reader of Maximum Rock N' Roll in those days (still am, but not as much).

    I actually saw Green Day at Stache's when I was 17 (I didn't have a fake ID, but it wasn't 100% correct). Sat next to B.J. at the bar, but I didn't really like him. They played an o.k. set. Never was blown away by 'em, but they were better than The Offspring, I guess. Now, they're wearing suedo paramilitary costumes and singing love songs and stuff. Blech.

    The mid to early nineties were both a really cool time (the 7" singles revolution, Crypt Records, Sympathy for the Record Industry, etc.), and a really annoying time (The movie "Singles", Courtney Love, The Birth of Mall Punk, etc.).

    I never really hated Nirvana, though. They seemed like okay fellas.

    My ex roomate is in the process of writing a book about the 1990's rock n' roll scene. I'll keep you updated as to when it comes out. You will find it very interesting.
    I was at the Woodstock show and the Boston Esplanade show that turned into a near riot.

    I always got the sense, even during those two shows, that Billy Joe was making the plea that "Hey now folks, we're not that band." And they've pretty spent their time since then proving it.

    Weirdest thing about the '90s scene, to me, is the lengths to which it tried to erase history. No one got hit harder than the Ramones. The world swung in their direction, but refused to acknowledge them. Some older acts (Social Distortion and the Descendents) finally tasted success or got a mini comeback, but I always thought it was odd that a lot of punk, hardcore and college radio forefathers didn't get much of a ride, if any, on that gravy train.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  5. #49
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I was at the Woodstock show and the Boston Esplanade show that turned into a near riot.

    I always got the sense, even during those two shows, that Billy Joe was making the plea that "Hey now folks, we're not that band." And they've pretty spent their time since then proving it.

    Weirdest thing about the '90s scene, to me, is the lengths to which it tried to erase history. No one got hit harder than the Ramones. The world swung in their direction, but refused to acknowledge them. Some older acts (Social Distortion and the Descendents) finally tasted success or got a mini comeback, but I always thought it was odd that a lot of punk, hardcore and college radio forefathers didn't get much of a ride, if any, on that gravy train.
    Even though they were the forefathers, they still weren't seen as "marketable" by the machine.

    It was okay to use their songs for car commercials (I still remember where I was when I heard "What do I Get?" on a Honda commercial), as long as their faces weren't shown.

    When the New Bomb Turks were being wooed by Capital (I think it was), their main sticking points were "You guys are a little too overweight", and "Your name doesn't make sense". They ended up on Epitaph, made three records, two videos, and had a song on some skateboarding video game.

    Point is (I guess) is that those guys didn't really know what to do with Punk Rock. They knew people wanted it, but they really didn't know why. Their solution was to re create it, make it all about the Vans Warped Tour and tatoos. They took all of the peripheral garbage and made it the main focus. Made it something boring and consumerist, a different uniform, if you will.

    The Ramones never went for that. They had a cooler uniform and cared about cooler stuff.

    I really wish we lived in a Ramones kinda world. I don't like this one at all by comparison.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  6. #50
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    [From what I gather, Mother Love Bone was supposed to be Seattle's breakthrough act, but then Andrew Wood ODed. A month before Nevermind hit, Pearl Jam released Ten and no one was paying any attention.
    Soundgarden was Seattle's big breakthrough act. Mother Love Bone probably would have been the Next Big Thing our of that town, but they wouldn't have broken as big as Nirvana. Their sound just wasn't that unique.
    Last edited by Johnny Footstool; 11-17-2008 at 05:51 PM.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  7. #51
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels View Post
    Even though they were the forefathers, they still weren't seen as "marketable" by the machine.

    It was okay to use their songs for car commercials (I still remember where I was when I heard "What do I Get?" on a Honda commercial), as long as their faces weren't shown.

    When the New Bomb Turks were being wooed by Capital (I think it was), their main sticking points were "You guys are a little too overweight", and "Your name doesn't make sense". They ended up on Epitaph, made three records, two videos, and had a song on some skateboarding video game.

    Point is (I guess) is that those guys didn't really know what to do with Punk Rock. They knew people wanted it, but they really didn't know why. Their solution was to re create it, make it all about the Vans Warped Tour and tatoos. They took all of the peripheral garbage and made it the main focus. Made it something boring and consumerist, a different uniform, if you will.

    The Ramones never went for that. They had a cooler uniform and cared about cooler stuff.

    I really wish we lived in a Ramones kinda world. I don't like this one at all by comparison.
    Excellent points.

    And how in the hell couldn't they have known "Hollywood Knights"? That's a firing offense if you ask me.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  8. #52
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    Soundgarden was Seattle's big breakthrough act. Mother Love Bone probably would have been the Next Big Thing our of that town, but they wouldn't have broken as big as Nirvana.
    Louder Than Love never really took off. It was Badmotorfinger that really put Soundgarden on the map and that was a post-Nevermind release (actually came out two weeks later, kind of sick what got released in late 1991).

    If only the kids had glommed onto "Big Dumb Sex" and sung it on their school buses.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  9. #53
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    Soundgarden was Seattle's big breakthrough act. Mother Love Bone probably would have been the Next Big Thing our of that town, but they wouldn't have broken as big as Nirvana. Their sound just wasn't that unique.
    This is a fun reminiscing thread for me. I was pretty much a 80's metalhead at the time, with nods in several other diverse directions as well. Then Nevermind hit and I loved it and dug into more of "that sound" or what was being labeled that way anyhow....

    MLB's "Apple" is still one of my favorite CDs. And I completely dug the early Soundgarden.
    "I'm virtually free to do whatever I want, but I try to remember so is everybody else..." - Todd Snider

  10. #54
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan View Post
    This is a fun reminiscing thread for me. I was pretty much a 80's metalhead at the time, with nods in several other diverse directions as well. Then Nevermind hit and I loved it and dug into more of "that sound" or what was being labeled that way anyhow....

    MLB's "Apple" is still one of my favorite CDs. And I completely dug the early Soundgarden.

    "Full On Kevin's Mom" was hilarious.
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  11. #55
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Excellent points.

    And how in the hell couldn't they have known "Hollywood Knights"? That's a firing offense if you ask me.
    Yeah. It's not like the Turks didn't have a choice, either. They were being wooed by some of the big boys, but chose Epitaph because they kinda understood what they were all about, pretty much let them make the records they wanted to make.

    They still didn't know what to do with them, though. It's really sad.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  12. #56
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Louder Than Love never really took off. It was Badmotorfinger that really put Soundgarden on the map and that was a post-Nevermind release (actually came out two weeks later, kind of sick what got released in late 1991).

    If only the kids had glommed onto "Big Dumb Sex" and sung it on their school buses.
    Soundgarden and Alice in Chains spent '89 and '90 earning the respect of metal fans and carving out an audience for Nevermind. They were a proof-of-concept for the Seattle sound.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  13. #57
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    Soundgarden and Alice in Chains spent '89 and '90 earning the respect of metal fans and carving out an audience for Nevermind. They were a proof-of-concept for the Seattle sound.
    They certainly provided a bridge for metal fans (hey, here's something heavy that doesn't require hair spray), but that was only part of the Nirvana coalition.

    I actually think what separated Nirvana from the other Seattle bands is that they were as much punk and pop as they were metal/hard rock.

    On a side note, how great would a Nirvana cover of "Cherry Pie" have been?
    Last edited by M2; 11-17-2008 at 09:52 PM.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    They certainly provided a bridge for metal fans (hey, here's something heavy that doesn't require hair spray), but that was only part of the Nirvana coalition.

    I actually think what separated Nirvana from the other Seattle bands is that they were as much punk and pop as they were metal/hard rock.
    I think what separated Nirvana were the number of good songs they wrote. Nirvana and In Utero are full of them. Nirvana's the better collection to me because it doesn't mock the quality of the songs with choruses like "rape me" and "i think i'm dumb". Thats what separates the Ramones and the Clash from other punk bands. Its what separates Pavement from other low-fi bands. A good tune stands the test of time, no matter what the style of music or the singing or the recording quality.

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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    I have to say, reading the responses on this thread. I only wish I cared about music as much as you guys do.

    I've always had a kind of ambivelant attitude toward music, there's nothing that I'd immediately turn off, but there's nothing that really "speaks to me" either. I used to like to think I had an eclectic taste in music, But the more I move away from the last CD purchased(probably 8 years now), the more I realize I just don't care enough about any music either way.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  16. #60
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    I have to say, reading the responses on this thread. I only wish I cared about music as much as you guys do.

    I've always had a kind of ambivelant attitude toward music, there's nothing that I'd immediately turn off, but there's nothing that really "speaks to me" either. I used to like to think I had an eclectic taste in music, But the more I move away from the last CD purchased(probably 8 years now), the more I realize I just don't care enough about any music either way.
    Yeah, but you like Baseball, so you're still cool.
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