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Thread: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

  1. #31
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by macro View Post
    As much as I disliked Nirvana and the whole Seattle thing, I can't argue.

    My dislike was because I was a child of 70s and 80s rock, and the new sound was a shock to my system. For the first time in my life, at age 25, I felt outdated and uncool. "Smells Like Teen Spirit" just sounded like a bunch of jumbled noise to me.

    I now appreciate the band and the album and it's place in music history, but it doesn't bring back great memories.
    Me too and I was a teenager at the time. My favorite albums as a teen were Live's Throwing Copper, Tool's Undertow and STP's Purple. I like a little melody in my music and a little meaning in my lyrics.

    Of course, that was then. When I go back now and listen, I think I like Nirvana better (hard to tell, though, since I've heard every song a million times at this point). Odd how that works.
    Last edited by kpresidente; 11-14-2008 at 04:27 PM.

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  3. #32
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    Me too and I was a teenager at the time. My favorite albums as a teen were Live's Throwing Copper, Tool's Undertow and STP's Purple. I like a little melody in my music and a little meaning in my lyrics.

    Of course, that was then. When I go back now and listen, I think I like Nirvana better (hard to tell, though, since I've heard every song a million times at this point). Odd how that works.
    One of the common knocks on Nevermind is that it's melody-heavy. That's where the Cheap Trick comparison comes in.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  4. #33
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    One of the common knocks on Nevermind is that it's melody-heavy. That's where the Cheap Trick comparison comes in.
    Yeah, so I've heard.

  5. #34
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Put me in the camp that believes In Utero is better than Nevermind. Nevermind is a good album, but like FCB already said, the production was bad, and they left behind a lot of untapped potential.

    As for In Utero, I don't think it's one of the best albums of all-time or anything, but it's certainly very good, and the production was superior to anything else around that time. In Utero was much less melodic, and therefore, less appreciated by the public, but if Nirvana had more time to make a couple more albums, they could've changed the rock industry so much more than they did.

  6. #35
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    but if Nirvana had more time to make a couple more albums, they could've changed the rock industry so much more than they did.
    I doubt Nirvana would have lasted a couple more albums, even if Kurt hadn't died.

    Their was much turmoil in the band by 1994, due mostly to Courtney Love being around and Kurt's drug use and odd behavior. At the session where they recorded the song "You Know You're Right", which was their last formal session, Kurt showed up 2 days late. Dave Grohl had already begun working rough versions of eventual Foo Fighters songs during his time in Nirvana.

    There was also talk of Kurt wanting to leave the band for either solo work, or a possible collaberation with Michael Stipe. And this is getting far out there, but among those Nirvana fans who believe Kurt was murdered, instead of having committed suicide, they believe the suicide note was actually a letter to fans about Kurt either quitting the band or quitting the music industry altogether. I don't really know about all that, but it's an interesting theory.

    What stinks is that we can never know how it would have played out.

  7. #36
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    I doubt Nirvana would have lasted a couple more albums, even if Kurt hadn't died.

    Their was much turmoil in the band by 1994, due mostly to Courtney Love being around and Kurt's drug use and odd behavior. At the session where they recorded the song "You Know You're Right", which was their last formal session, Kurt showed up 2 days late. Dave Grohl had already begun working rough versions of eventual Foo Fighters songs during his time in Nirvana.

    There was also talk of Kurt wanting to leave the band for either solo work, or a possible collaberation with Michael Stipe. And this is getting far out there, but among those Nirvana fans who believe Kurt was murdered, instead of having committed suicide, they believe the suicide note was actually a letter to fans about Kurt either quitting the band or quitting the music industry altogether. I don't really know about all that, but it's an interesting theory.

    What stinks is that we can never know how it would have played out.
    I have always wondered how much his drug overdose and coma affected mental abilities and if that contributed to his suicide/murder?
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.

  8. #37
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    CDs were already mainstream by that time. Had been for about 5 years.

    And the music video popped in the early '80s.

    But Nirvana, more than any other band, provided a generational call to arms. Nevermind was Gen X's calling card. It was a behind-the-scenes generation until that point. After that, music, movies and pop culture began to change rapidly. I'd argue that Gen X feeling that it had arrived in some measure helped swing the 1992 Presidential election. A lot of young people who might have sat on the sidelines instead got out and voted. The workplace even got altered (notably many companies became a lot less buttoned up).
    CD's were out but tapes were also around. IIRC tapes still had a strong influence on the music world but soon went the way of the dinosaur. There was still a large part of the population that hadn't bought into CD's yet. Something similar to DVD and VHS. 5 years after DVD's were released VHS tapes were still in every store and still were being sold.

    Music video's were around but that doesn't mean they were popular. Smells Like Teen Spirt was one of the video's that changed the music video. Right around this time MTV was huge in showing music video's. IMO Smells Like Teen Spirit got Gen X into watching MTV and the music video. It became the song for anyone in Jr High, High School, and maybe College but I was too young to know.

    IMO this album became the calling card of an entire generation. It more than anything changed the type of music I have listened to. To be honest I haven't listened to a Nirvana song or album in years but I still consider that to be one of my favorite albums.

    Kurt Cobain was such an influential musician that he was voted artist of the decade by Rolling Stone but didn't even live for half of the 90's. While you can say that his downward spiral may have prohibited him from creating anything great he had a way to get it done. He just had a way of producing music for the masses. Nirvana's MTV Live CD was another great success.

  9. #38
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    IMO Smells Like Teen Spirit got Gen X into watching MTV and the music video
    Ummm by the time Nevermind came out MTV was firmly entrenched in every music lovers home, and the 80's were way better for the music video than the 90's could ever hope to have been.

  10. #39
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Music video's were around but that doesn't mean they were popular. Smells Like Teen Spirt was one of the video's that changed the music video. Right around this time MTV was huge in showing music video's. IMO Smells Like Teen Spirit got Gen X into watching MTV and the music video. It became the song for anyone in Jr High, High School, and maybe College but I was too young to know.
    You should have just started with the last sentiment and stuck to it.

    Music videos were massive in the '80s and waned in the '90s. Gen X had been glued to MTV for a decade prior to "Smells Like Teen Spirit."
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  11. #40
    Just The Big Picture macro's Avatar
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Yep, and in fact, the demise of MTV began in 1992 with the debut of The Real World.

  12. #41
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    I doubt Nirvana would have lasted a couple more albums, even if Kurt hadn't died.
    I'd agree with this, half of In Utero was songs that had been kicking around since 1990, some of which got dumped from Nevermind, from the outside it seems the band was creatively tapped out already.
    Go Gators!

  13. #42
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    I'd agree with this, half of In Utero was songs that had been kicking around since 1990, some of which got dumped from Nevermind, from the outside it seems the band was creatively tapped out already.
    Cobain certainly seemed to hit the wall on In Utero. As I mentioned before, he was so far up his own backside (lyrically speaking) that it left him with nothing to say. No one cares about a poor, little rock star.

    The triumph of Nevermind was that it found a certain joy in confusion and alienation. It seemed consciously aware of the idea that if we're all confused and alienated, then at least we've got something in common ... and here's a few catchy tunes about that. You could sing along to Nevermind, pump your fist to it, bounce around in a pit of strangers to it, turn it up loud on your car stereo on a warm summer's night and feel good to it. The record didn't feel sorry for itself, didn't ask you to feel bad about anything (even if it regularly acknowledged that we don't live in a smiley-faced world). It had a celebratory vibe, an infectious, unspoken positivism that cleaved through the grunge.

    "Smells Like Teen Spirit" had what Alice Cooper's "Eighteen" had. "Come As You Are" had what Tom Petty's "Breakdown" had. All those songs sent something soaring above the madness.

    Maybe it was too much to ask for Cobain to touch that nerve again. He very well might have touched it by accident. He certainly seemed unable to reconcile the accessibility of Nevermind (a stellar artistic accomplishment) with the dour facade he associated with being a serious artist.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  14. #43
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    CDs were already mainstream by that time. Had been for about 5 years.

    And the music video popped in the early '80s.

    But Nirvana, more than any other band, provided a generational call to arms. Nevermind was Gen X's calling card. It was a behind-the-scenes generation until that point. After that, music, movies and pop culture began to change rapidly. I'd argue that Gen X feeling that it had arrived in some measure helped swing the 1992 Presidential election. A lot of young people who might have sat on the sidelines instead got out and voted. The workplace even got altered (notably many companies became a lot less buttoned up).
    I guess that's all true, but I was mostly annoyed because rock shows began to be populated by flannel wearing poseurs, and then Green Day happened and I almost felt like dropping out of society altogether.

    It stinks when stuff gets co-opted.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  15. #44
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels View Post
    I guess that's all true, but I was mostly annoyed because rock shows began to be populated by flannel wearing poseurs, and then Green Day happened and I almost felt like dropping out of society altogether.

    It stinks when stuff gets co-opted.
    Green Day was big in the underground scene in Berkeley, because of them (and prior to the word Dookie being uttered) they put power pop on the map in NoCal, at Lollapalooza in the Bay Area a group of folks unfurled a banner during their set that read "Corporate Sellouts" they proceeded to boo them relentlessly throughout the whole set.

  16. #45
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Well, whatever, "Nevermind..."

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Green Day was big in the underground scene in Berkeley, because of them (and prior to the word Dookie being uttered) they put power pop on the map in NoCal, at Lollapalooza in the Bay Area a group of folks unfurled a banner during their set that read "Corporate Sellouts" they proceeded to boo them relentlessly throughout the whole set.
    Yeah. I was a regular reader of Maximum Rock N' Roll in those days (still am, but not as much).

    I actually saw Green Day at Stache's when I was 17 (I didn't have a fake ID, but it wasn't 100% correct). Sat next to B.J. at the bar, but I didn't really like him. They played an o.k. set. Never was blown away by 'em, but they were better than The Offspring, I guess. Now, they're wearing suedo paramilitary costumes and singing love songs and stuff. Blech.

    The mid to early nineties were both a really cool time (the 7" singles revolution, Crypt Records, Sympathy for the Record Industry, etc.), and a really annoying time (The movie "Singles", Courtney Love, The Birth of Mall Punk, etc.).

    I never really hated Nirvana, though. They seemed like okay fellas.

    My ex roomate is in the process of writing a book about the 1990's rock n' roll scene. I'll keep you updated as to when it comes out. You will find it very interesting.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn


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