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View Poll Results: Who is Redszone's #16 prospect?

Voters
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  • Alex Buchholz

    7 6.36%
  • Dallas Buck

    4 3.64%
  • Zach Cozart

    16 14.55%
  • Carlos Fisher

    6 5.45%
  • Ryan Hanigan

    3 2.73%
  • Chris Heisey

    9 8.18%
  • Sean Henry

    1 0.91%
  • Evan Hildenbrandt

    2 1.82%
  • Jeremy Horst

    0 0%
  • Ben Jukich

    0 0%
  • Sam Lecure

    0 0%
  • Matt Maloney

    9 8.18%
  • Ramon Ramirez

    31 28.18%
  • Adam Rosales

    3 2.73%
  • Juan Carlos Sulbaran

    9 8.18%
  • Justin Turner

    5 4.55%
  • Pedro Viola

    1 0.91%
  • Brandon Waring

    1 0.91%
  • Travis Wood

    3 2.73%
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Thread: Who is Redszone's #16 prospect?

  1. #1
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Who is Redszone's #16 prospect?

    Redszone's Top Prospects

    Prospect #1 - Yonder Alonso
    Prospect #2 - Todd Frazier
    Prospect #3 - Neftali Soto
    Prospect #4 - Drew Stubbs
    Prospect #5 - Chris Valaika
    Prospect #6 - Kyle Lotzkar
    Prospect #7 - Daryl Thompson
    Prospect #8 - Juan Francisco
    Prospect #9 - Juan Duran
    Prospect #10 - Chris Dickerson
    Prospect #11 - Devin Mesoraco
    Prospect #12 - Danny Dorn
    Prospect #13 - Yorman Rodriguez
    Prospect #14 - Zach Stewart
    Prospect #15 - Josh Roenicke
    I miss Adam Dunn.

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  3. #2
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #16 prospect?

    I went with Ramon Ramirez slightly over Carlos Fisher. I actually voted Fisher one spot ahead of Ramirez in my personal top 40, but after thinking about it I chose to flip them. I like Fisher a lot, I think he's gonna make an outstanding reliever, but I went with Ramirez since he's a starter and has already had some success in the major leagues.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  4. #3
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #16 prospect?

    Travis Wood?

  5. #4
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #16 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by BearcatShane View Post
    Travis Wood?
    What about him?
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  6. #5
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #16 prospect?

    I got Cozart here. Given his defense should be in the top fifteen or so.

    For the next round, please consider Jordan Smith and Sean Watson for the list.

  7. #6
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #16 prospect?

    Doug, please explain your reasoning for voting Carlos Fisher over Ramon Ramirez? (Just curious)
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  8. #7
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #16 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Doug, please explain your reasoning for voting Carlos Fisher over Ramon Ramirez? (Just curious)
    I think that Fisher has the stuff to give you 70 quality innings every year for a long time. I think Ramirez can be a #4 starter for a few years, but won't last as long. I rank guys on what I feel their MLB career will be and the likelihood of reaching that. Both guys are around the same level as far as closeness, I just feel that Fisher can remain a very effective reliever for while longer than Ramirez can remain a quality starter.

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    Re: Who is Redszone's #16 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I think that Fisher has the stuff to give you 70 quality innings every year for a long time. I think Ramirez can be a #4 starter for a few years, but won't last as long. I rank guys on what I feel their MLB career will be and the likelihood of reaching that. Both guys are around the same level as far as closeness, I just feel that Fisher can remain a very effective reliever for while longer than Ramirez can remain a quality starter.
    The way I see it is Ramirez has the ceiling to become a decent starter, while Fisher is limited to the bullpen. At the same time, I think Ramirez's floor is higher because at worst he will be a poor reliever. Fisher's ceiling is good setup man, with a floor somewhere in AAA. So it's possible that Ramirez ends up doing a better job than Fisher in the bullpen...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  10. #9
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #16 prospect?

    I'm going with a prospect who has done nothing but produce on the field every year. He has a better career batting avg than #5 prospect Valaika.
    He has put up better numbers in the AFL this year. If Valaika stats put him in the Top 5, Turners stats should put him in the Top 20 and I'm voting for him again at #16.
    His career stats are:
    Code:
    Avg   OBP   SLG     OPS
    .310  .377  .445   .822 (Turner)
    .306  .357  .467   .824 (Valaika)

  11. #10
    Member SMcGavin's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #16 prospect?

    Robert Manuel was a LOT better than Carlos Fisher this year at Chattanooga. He's also a year younger. Not that I'd put either of them this high, I'm just saying.

    If it's the groundballs that are getting Fisher the love - why not Clayton Shunick? I think Fisher's career (failed starter, gets converted to relief and has some success, promoted to AAA late in his age 25 season) is pretty much the floor for Shunick.

    Don't get me wrong, I could see Fisher making a niche for himself in an MLB bullpen somewhere, but I don't see what he's done to differentiate himself from some other relievers who didn't even make this poll. For example Manuel and Danny Herrera (who has similar groundball tendencies, is two years younger and most importantly doesn't have the control issues that plague Fisher).

  12. #11
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #16 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    The way I see it is Ramirez has the ceiling to become a decent starter, while Fisher is limited to the bullpen. At the same time, I think Ramirez's floor is higher because at worst he will be a poor reliever. Fisher's ceiling is good setup man, with a floor somewhere in AAA. So it's possible that Ramirez ends up doing a better job than Fisher in the bullpen...
    Possible, sure. But I don't think its very likely at all. Fisher's cieling is a very good reliever. Set up guy, long guy, closer... doesn't matter. His ceiling is that of a guy capable of 70 innings every year with a lot of strikeouts, a lot of groundballs, few HR's allowed and a low 3 ERA. I don't think that Ramirez can be that type of reliever.

  13. #12
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #16 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Possible, sure. But I don't think its very likely at all. Fisher's cieling is a very good reliever. Set up guy, long guy, closer... doesn't matter. His ceiling is that of a guy capable of 70 innings every year with a lot of strikeouts, a lot of groundballs, few HR's allowed and a low 3 ERA. I don't think that Ramirez can be that type of reliever.
    Isn't Ramirez's biggest issue that he needs to improve his slider? A move to the pen would allow him to add a few MPH to that fastball and dominate with his changeup. I can easily see him being the exact same reliever you are describing as your model for Fisher.

    It's just my personal theory that starting pitching prospects go before relief pitchers unless they have the potential to be truly dominant--and Fisher will never be dominant IMO. But I respect your opinion Doug...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  14. #13
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #16 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by SMcGavin View Post
    Robert Manuel was a LOT better than Carlos Fisher this year at Chattanooga. He's also a year younger. Not that I'd put either of them this high, I'm just saying.

    If it's the groundballs that are getting Fisher the love - why not Clayton Shunick? I think Fisher's career (failed starter, gets converted to relief and has some success, promoted to AAA late in his age 25 season) is pretty much the floor for Shunick.

    Don't get me wrong, I could see Fisher making a niche for himself in an MLB bullpen somewhere, but I don't see what he's done to differentiate himself from some other relievers who didn't even make this poll. For example Manuel and Danny Herrera (who has similar groundball tendencies, is two years younger and most importantly doesn't have the control issues that plague Fisher).
    Fisher wasn't a pitcher until he was 21.5 either though, so his age is a bit deceiving. As for why not Shunick, well for starters his results weren't close to that of Fisher. 2, his stuff isn't on par either, yet. Thirdly, Shunick posted a 51% GB rate in rookie ball. Fisher posted a 61% rate in AA/AAA.

    As for a comparison to Herrera, its very simple. Fisher can throw a 95 MPH sinker, Herrera throws an 84 MPH 4 seamer. One guy projects to have the ability to pitch in the majors and one doesn't.

    Now with Manuel, his stuff is a bit different than Fisher. He throws a little softer but with good movement on his fastball (89-92 MPH) and he can locate it well. However Manuel for his career has a GB% below 35%, which is Eric Milton territory. Guys that give up that many flyballs tend to give up a lot of HR's. In the end I like Fishers stuff better and his projection better, but Manuel is someone that could really improve his footing with another outstanding season out of the pen. The flyball numbers scare me though.

  15. #14
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #16 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Isn't Ramirez's biggest issue that he needs to improve his slider? A move to the pen would allow him to add a few MPH to that fastball and dominate with his changeup. I can easily see him being the exact same reliever you are describing as your model for Fisher.

    It's just my personal theory that starting pitching prospects go before relief pitchers unless they have the potential to be truly dominant--and Fisher will never be dominant IMO. But I respect your opinion Doug...
    I am curious as to why you think a tall, big bodied pitcher with a sinker up to 95 MPH can't be dominant?

    As for Ramirez, from the bullpen he can throw a little harder (generally works 91-93 from the bullpen).

    Another difference is their body builds. Fisher is tall and big. Ramirez is short and skinny. Over the long haul, I put my money on Fisher having the longer career, thus making his overall value higher.

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    Re: Who is Redszone's #16 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I am curious as to why you think a tall, big bodied pitcher with a sinker up to 95 MPH can't be dominant?
    It's simple--secondary stuff. As far as I know he doesn't have that offspeed pitch to keep hitters off-balance for his power sinker. I don't believe he will get enough swings and misses with that sinker. I'm not saying he can't become a good reliever, just that he won't be a relief ace (one of the 30 best relievers in MLB)...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."


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