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Thread: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

  1. #1
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

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    According to Brian McRae reporting for Sports Radio 810 in Kansas City, the Royals acquired Coco Crisp from the Red Sox for reliever Ramon Ramirez. I emailed McRae to confirm, and he said, "It's a done deal." The Royals get speed and a quality center fielder, while the Red Sox receive a quality late-game reliever.
    This may set up a deal with the Cubs for Teahan or Dejesus..
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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    If Dejesus is on the market, the Reds ought to be after him.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Good pickup for the Royals.

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    If Dejesus is on the market, the Reds ought to be after him.
    Dejesus does a number of things well, but does nothing great. He's a solid performer in pretty much every aspect of the game.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    Member hebroncougar's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    Good pickup for the Royals.



    Dejesus does a number of things well, but does nothing great. He's a solid performer in pretty much every aspect of the game.
    One thing that's a given, his power numbers would improve here.

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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    If Dejesus is on the market, the Reds ought to be after him.
    I think he's a lefty bat. Of every outfielder in MLB, must the Reds target more lefty bats? Why not address the real need, right handed hitting.

    Reds have Bruce, Votto, and Alonso in the wings from the left side. Dickerson is also left handed.

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    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I think he's a lefty bat. Of every outfielder in MLB, must the Reds target more lefty bats? Why not address the real need, right handed hitting.

    Reds have Bruce, Votto, and Alonso in the wings from the left side. Dickerson is also left handed.
    Alonso might be in Cincinnati in 2010. Maybe. For 2009 they have Bruce, Votto and possibly Dickerson in the lineup. It's not exactly LH heavy. Dejesus would be a good addition, at least for 2009.

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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I think he's a lefty bat. Of every outfielder in MLB, must the Reds target more lefty bats? Why not address the real need, right handed hitting.

    Reds have Bruce, Votto, and Alonso in the wings from the left side. Dickerson is also left handed.
    The Reds were .257/.336/.420 against LHPs and .243/.314/.403 against RHPs and RH hitting is the "real need?"

    I don't think so.

    The Reds may very well have RH bats at 2B, SS, 3B and C. If that's the case, then they need LH bats across the OF. Yet more to the point, the Reds need multi-faceted players no matter what side of the plate they hit from.
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    Alonso might be in Cincinnati in 2010. Maybe. For 2009 they have Bruce, Votto and possibly Dickerson in the lineup. It's not exactly LH heavy. Dejesus would be a good addition, at least for 2009.
    It depends on your view of the current right handed bats.

    I don't think either EE or Phillips is a cleanup hitter who should hit between Votto and Bruce. I think a better righty bat for that spot is needed. Reds shouldn't have three lefty bats in a row in the middle of the lineup.

    And there's no doubt in my mind that Alonso will be a Reds as soon as possible. He's got a major league contract, they will get him up to Cincy just as soon as they can, so it's very short-term thinking to acquire still another lefty starting player.

    Again, the field is wide open, there are open positions and the Reds can make a play for anyone they want. They might as well go for the righty guys rather than the lefty guys.

  10. #9
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I think he's a lefty bat. Of every outfielder in MLB, must the Reds target more lefty bats? Why not address the real need, right handed hitting.
    Reds have Bruce, Votto, and Alonso in the wings from the left side. Dickerson is also left handed.
    The Reds get far more AB/PA against right handed pitching. The Reds need batters that can get on base against right handed pitching. I don’t understand the lone habitual cry in the media for a right handed batter vs obtaining batters that can get on base against right handed pitching.
    Code:
    		  BA  OBP  SLG  OPS
    Paul Janish	.102 .185 .163 .348 
    Adam Rosales 	.167 .211 .222 .433 
    Danny Richar 	.229 .229 .286 .514 
    Norris Hopper 	.125 .250 .125 .375 
    J. Keppinger 	.225 .265 .284 .550 
    Andy Phillips	.206 .289 .382 .672 
    B. Phillips 	.247 .293 .383 .676 
    Ryan Freel 	.261 .297 .290 .587 
    E. Encarnacion 	.235 .315 .450 .765 
    W. Castillo 	.296 .321 .296 .618 
    Jay Bruce 	.286 .340 .529 .869 
    J. Valentin 	.271 .342 .430 .772 
    J. Hairston Jr. .316 .366 .458 .824 
    Joey Votto 	.299 .370 .510 .880 
    C. Dickerson 	.309 .411 .654 1.065 
    Ryan Hanigan 	.298 .421 .383 .804
    Even part time players such as Hairston and Valentin may not be back, others in the list are mainly small samples. The list against right handed pitching would indicate that the Reds are deficient in batters who can get on base against right handed pitching.

    Batting stats against right handed pitchers
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/...ype=2&type=reg

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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    And Todd Frazier, RH bat, should arrive around the same time as Alonso. Drew Stubbs - RH bat. Chris Valaika - RH bat.

    The Reds should be after good players, not trying to fix problems they don't have and perhaps never will.
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Yes, the Reds need better hitting against righties. I would argue, however, that the need is not for more lefty bats. The need is for better righty bats.

    Against lefty pitching, the Reds righty bats did pretty well and one major lefty hitter, Votto, hit .292 BA against them. So the Reds did pretty well against lefties overall, from both sides of the plate.

    But against righty hurlers, while the lefty hitters did well, the deficiency was with the Reds current main RIGHTY hitters.

    Phillips hit .247 against righty pitching and EE hit .235 against them. That's about .240 BA in 769 at bats against righties for these two regular starting players. That's the main reason the Reds hitting stats were so poor against righty pitching -- insufficient RIGHTY hitting against them.

    Assuming normal improvement by young Mr. Bruce, the Reds will be fine from the left side. And when Mr. Alonso appears, the tandem of Votto, Bruce and Alonso should be dominant against righty pitching.

    The Reds simply do not have counterparts to Votto, Bruce and Alonso from the right hand side. Frazier may help, but that's about it. EE and Phillips, for all their merits, do not hit righties that well. Neither of them should be middle of the order hitters against righty pitching. They are not the all around bats to hit cleanup in this lineup.

    A new righty bat (or switch hitter) -- who kills lefty pitching and hits pretty well against righties -- is needed to hit between Votto and Bruce now, with Alonso perhaps hitting sixth eventually. Sticking still another lefty hitter with these three is not the way to go.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-19-2008 at 11:33 AM.

  13. #12
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    The Reds were .257/.336/.420 against LHPs and .243/.314/.403 against RHPs and RH hitting is the "real need?"

    I don't think so.

    The Reds may very well have RH bats at 2B, SS, 3B and C. If that's the case, then they need LH bats across the OF. Yet more to the point, the Reds need multi-faceted players no matter what side of the plate they hit from.
    Yes.

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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Yes, the Reds need better hitting against righties. I would argue, however, that the need is not for more lefty bats. The need is for better righty bats.

    Against lefty pitching, the Reds righty bats did pretty well and one major lefty hitter, Votto, hit .292 BA against them. So the Reds did pretty well against lefties from both sides.

    But against righty hurlers, while the current lefty hitters did well, the deficiency was with the Reds current main RIGHTY hitters.

    Phillips hit .247 against righty pitching and EE hit .235 against them. That's about .240 BA in 769 at bats against righties for these two regular starting players. That's the main reason the Reds hitting stats were so poor against righty pitching -- insufficient RIGHTY hitting against them.

    Assuming normal improvement by young Mr. Bruce, the Reds will be fine from the left side. And when Mr. Alonso appears, the tandem of Votto, Bruce and Alonso should be dominant against righty pitching.

    The Reds simply do not have counterparts to Votto, Bruce and Alonso from the right hand side. Frazier may help, but that's about it. EE and Phillips, for all their merits, do not hit righties that well. Neither of them should be middle of the order hitters against righty pitching. A new righty bat -- who can hit against all pitching -- is needed to hit between Votto and Bruce now, with Alonso perhaps hitting sixth eventually.
    The main reason the Reds were so poor against RHPs last year was insufficient hitting talent. LH, RH, SH, NoH, ShivaH, I don't care. If Encarnacion isn't up to the job, then the answer isn't to find another RH bat to stick somewhere else on the field, it's to upgrade Mr. Encarnacion.

    The Reds need OF defense and a leadoff hitter. Dejesus could cover both those needs.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    If Encarnacion isn't up to the job, then the answer isn't to find another RH bat to stick somewhere else on the field, it's to upgrade Mr. Encarnacion.

    .
    If you upgrade Mr. Encarnacion with a better righty hitter, say Beltre, then you've accomplished the goal. I didn't say the Reds need multiple righty hitters for every position. Just one major guy for the middle of the lineup.

    He can be someone added for left field. Or, he can replace EE at third. Either way works for me.

    Once the Reds add this righty bat, they can add Dejesus or anyone else they want to fill other needs, sure. At that point, I just want all around good players.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-19-2008 at 11:42 AM.

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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    If you upgrade Mr. Encarnacion with a better righty hitter, say Beltre, then you've accomplished the goal. I didn't say the Reds need multiple righty hitters for every position. Just one major guy for the middle of the lineup.

    He can be someone added for left field. Or, he can replace EE at third. Either way works for me.

    Once the Reds add this righty bat, they can add Dejesus or anyone else they want to fill other needs, sure. At that point, I just want all around good players.
    In what universe does Adrian Beltre hit well? Most notably, he doesn't hit RHPs well at all, struggles mightily against them. He's exactly zero upgrade from Encarnacion at the plate. In fact, given that Encarnacion is still approaching what should be his prime, I'd guess that Beltre would be a net offensive downgrade.

    Plus, not adding something you need because you need other stuff too is madness. The Reds should acquire players that would make this a better team. Period.
    Last edited by M2; 11-19-2008 at 12:03 PM.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.


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