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Thread: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

  1. #16
    WOOOOO!!! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    It depends on your view of the current right handed bats.

    I don't think either EE or Phillips is a cleanup hitter who should hit between Votto and Bruce. I think a better righty bat for that spot is needed. Reds shouldn't have three lefty bats in a row in the middle of the lineup.
    I'm looking to acquire player talent, not player roles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    And there's no doubt in my mind that Alonso will be a Reds as soon as possible. He's got a major league contract, they will get him up to Cincy just as soon as they can, so it's very short-term thinking to acquire still another lefty starting player.

    Again, the field is wide open, there are open positions and the Reds can make a play for anyone they want. They might as well go for the righty guys rather than the lefty guys.
    Dejesus only has two years left on his contract. If Alonso is indeed ready soon enough we can trade Dejesus. His value should be increased by spending a year at GABP and many teams would be enticed by his friendly one year at a low cost contract situation...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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  3. #17
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Beltre would be a perfect fit for the Reds.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Beltre would be a perfect fit for the Reds.
    Perfect? I don't know if I'd go that far. He would definitely provide a defensive upgrade while giving the Reds similar or slightly worse offense as compared to EE. At a higher cost of course. He's not the "middle of the order" hitter than many are wanting to see brought in though.

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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    Perfect? I don't know if I'd go that far. He would definitely provide a defensive upgrade while giving the Reds similar or slightly worse offense as compared to EE. At a higher cost of course. He's not the "middle of the order" hitter than many are wanting to see brought in though.
    He would be a solid offensive addition to the Reds lineup that would make the Reds better.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    He would be a solid offensive addition to the Reds lineup that would make the Reds better.
    So you obviously think he'd provide better offense than EE. That's where we differ in opinion.

  7. #21
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Beltre would be a perfect fit for the Reds.
    His glove certainly would be welcome, but his bat is a big question mark. I assume the hope is he'd flash big-time power at the GAB, having played his whole career in pitcher's parks - a mini-Sosa effect if you will. Maybe, but this is a player who hasn't posted an OB above .330 in four seasons. He was .239/.290/.414 vs. RHPs last year.

    Beltre's essentially Brandon Phillips Redux at the plate, not a better-than-Phillips middle lineup replacement. Mind you, the Reds could sign him and his hitting stars could align, but I'd have to think the odds lean the other way.

    Anyway, what I'm saying is I'd do it (at the right price), but I wouldn't assume it would lead to any significant offensive upgrade.
    Last edited by M2; 11-19-2008 at 12:53 PM.
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    So you obviously think he'd provide better offense than EE. That's where we differ in opinion.
    Beltre would be a clear upgrade over EE.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    So he's a 3B version of Brandon Phillips. Fine. I can live with that as well, offensively and defensively. But those clamoring for a big righty bat to hit between Votto and Bruce will need to keep looking because Beltre isn't that guy.

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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Beltre would be a clear upgrade over EE.
    Overall, I agree because of the big difference in defense.

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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    So he's a 3B version of Brandon Phillips. Fine. I can live with that as well, offensively and defensively. But those clamoring for a big righty bat to hit between Votto and Bruce will need to keep looking because Beltre isn't that guy.
    I'm basically in the same boat. Beltre could bust out with a big season, but then again so could Phillips. I just don't think it makes a lot of sense to take it for granted that either one will.

    jojo, what exactly would you expect from Beltre at the plate? Overall and vs. RHPs?
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    I like the idea of a Beltre acquisition. I think he could be a lot like Aurilia for the Reds in GAB. In general, I think the offensive benefits of playing in GAB are *understated.* I think he could pretty easily SLG .500 in this park, which would, in turn, help boost his OB numbers (more respect for him, crappy NL pitchers, etc).

    He'd be an ideal acquisition, IMO.

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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    A few years ago I proposed Kearns for Affeldt and DeJesus. So I like the guy. But I wonder if Dickerson will give you the same thing for less scratch.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    But I wonder if Dickerson will give you the same thing for less scratch.
    Probably not. My money's on Dickerson being a total flash in the pan.

  15. #29
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    His glove certainly would be welcome, but his bat is a big question mark. I assume the hope is he'd flash big-time power at the GAB, having played his whole career in pitcher's parks - a mini-Sosa effect if you will. Maybe, but this is a player who hasn't posted an OB above .330 in four seasons. He was .239/.290/.414 vs. RHPs last year.

    Beltre's essentially Brandon Phillips Redux at the plate, not a better-than-Phillips middle lineup replacement. Mind you, the Reds could sign him and his hitting stars could align, but I'd have to think the odds lean the other way.

    Anyway, what I'm saying is I'd do it (at the right price), but I wouldn't assume it would lead to any significant offensive upgrade.
    Beltre is very underrated due to his environment. Safeco especially kills a guy like Beltre and park factors don't adequately capture the idiosyncrasies of Safeco. Beltre's power numbers would be expected get a boost from GABP and it's not crazy talk to surmise that Beltre could at least get on base at an exceptable clip (.340ish) in a more friendly habitat. Beltre is exactly the kind of sleeper Jocketty should be digging for IMHO- a guy who could be tangibly above average offensively for his position while having significant defensive value too.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I think he's a lefty bat. Of every outfielder in MLB, must the Reds target more lefty bats? Why not address the real need, right handed hitting.

    Reds have Bruce, Votto, and Alonso in the wings from the left side. Dickerson is also left handed.
    I'd like to see a RH masher added to the lineup also - in LF. As far as CF goes, I'm more concerned with defense, OBP and speed in that order RH/LH doesn't matter much to me there. The ability to hit at the top of the order would be very nice bonus, but not a necessity.

    Adding a solid defensive CF who can hit a respectable leadoff, then a big RH'd bat in LF to go with Bruce in RF while moving Dickerson to the 4th OF spot and adding a decent RH 1B/OF to serve as the primary PH would be ideal, IMO.


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