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Thread: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

  1. #31
    Member penantboundreds's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Let me ask you this.....would you have traded Jared Burton for Coco?
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  3. #32
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    jojo, what exactly would you expect from Beltre at the plate? Overall and vs. RHPs?
    I think as a Red, Beltre could be reasonably expected to OPS around .820 with .850 not being crazy talk in a good year.

    He actually doesn't struggle against righties. His career splits show only a slight platoon effect. In '08 he did poorly against righties but a lot of that was BABIP driven.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    A few years ago I proposed Kearns for Affeldt and DeJesus. So I like the guy. But I wonder if Dickerson will give you the same thing for less scratch.
    Right now the Reds have got an OF of Bruce, Dickerson (who is no sure thing) and ???.

    If you pick up Dejesus, that protects against cataclysm if Dickerson turns out to be a flash in the pan. Plus, Dickerson/Dejesus/Bruce could cover some ground.

    Maybe the plan is to go for a big corner OF bat, in which case obviously Dejesus isn't the right fit, but I like his game and the Reds would be hard-pressed to land a better player in the OF this season.
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  5. #34
    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/...=gammons_peter

    The Red Sox surveyed what was a surprisingly small market for Crisp -- Cincinnati was the other club with the most interest -- and decided that with Jeremy Affeldt starting out the 2008 free-agent market by signing a two-year, $8 million deal with the Giants, that it likely will be easier to find another outfielder than secure a low-cost power reliever.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  6. #35
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    I would've liked to have had Coco Crisp but I wouldn't trade Jared Burton for him.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  7. #36
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    I think as a Red, Beltre could be reasonably expected to OPS around .820 with .850 not being crazy talk in a good year.

    He actually doesn't struggle against righties. His career splits show only a slight platoon effect. In '08 he did poorly against righties but a lot of that was BABIP driven.
    So you're thinking .340 OB, .480 SLG neighborhood with .350/.500 being in range?

    Could be.

    I think you're missing something major in his career splits. Beltre has posted lopsided LH/RH splits in 3 of his 4 seasons with the Mariners, what keeps his career splits close is the monster season he had with the Dodgers in 2004 (1.063 OPS vs. RHPs, .858 OPS vs. LHPs). One massive outlier season skews the perception of what he's been the past four seasons.

    Also, I think it should be noted that Paul DePodesta was perfectly content to let Beltre walk after that monster season. The scuttlebutt was Beltre was considered a bit of a Milo.

    Yet, this is probably a moot discussion and, unless the Mariners are planning a massive rebuilding project, they'll probably keep Beltre in the hopes he has a monster contract-push season. Zduriencik can keep him to see if the club makes a run next season and, if it doesn't, Beltre may well be worth more in trade next summer (provided he's got some spiffy numbers).
    Last edited by M2; 11-19-2008 at 01:41 PM.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  8. #37
    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    I would've liked to have had Coco Crisp but I wouldn't trade Jared Burton for him.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  9. #38
    Member penantboundreds's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    I was just throwing it out there, not saying I would have done it, but Burton likely would have netted us a lead-off switch hitter who plays great defense....so I think it's a pretty fair question.
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  10. #39
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by penantboundreds View Post
    I was just throwing it out there, not saying I would have done it, but Burton likely would have netted us a lead-off switch hitter who plays great defense....so I think it's a pretty fair question.
    I would say that you are right and that Boston likely wanted Burton.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  11. #40
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I think you're missing something major in his career splits. Beltre has posted lopsided LH/RH splits in 3 of his 4 seasons with the Mariners, what keeps his career splits close is the monster season he had with the Dodgers in 2004 (1.063 OPS vs. RHPs, .858 OPS vs. LHPs). One massive outlier season skews the perception of what he's been the past four seasons.
    But even if he did have a dramatic platoon split, he pretty consistently OPS's .780 against them (righties). I don't see it as a problem. "05 was a lost year and basically his '08 was driven by BABIP. He's going to make less contact against righties no doubt but I don't see them as an achilles heel.

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Yet, this is probably a moo discussion and, unless the Mariners are planning a massive rebuilding project, they'll probably keep Beltre in the hopes he has a monster contract-push season. Zduriencik can keep him to see if the club makes a run next season and, if it doesn't, Beltre may well be worth more in trade next summer (provided he's got some spiffy numbers).
    I wish I knew what Zduriencikis planning to do.
    Last edited by jojo; 11-19-2008 at 01:48 PM.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  12. #41
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    You can tell baseball's entered a brave, new world when we're questioning whether a team should trade a middle reliever for an everday CF.

    While I'd have probably made that deal (I'm old school on these matters), it is a legitimate question that never would have been asked prior to this decade.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  13. #42
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    But even if he did have a dramatic platoon split, he pretty consistently OPS's .780 against them (righties). I don't see it as a problem. "05 was a lost year and basically his '08 was driven by BABIP. He's going to make less contact against righties no doubt but I don't see them as an achilles heel.
    When two of your last four seasons are .688 and .704, I don't think you get to claim that's consistency. It should also be noted that he fell in the .703-.713 range from 2001-03.

    We can make excuses for youth, lost seasons and buzzard's luck, but when the excuses are mounting higher than the supposed norms, I think we ought to recognize that we're talking about a volatile player. That can be good. It allows for upside and that's what you'd be gambling on with him in the last of a contract. Though, like I said, I expect the Mariners to be the one that takes that gamble unless someone makes them an offer they can't refuse.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  14. #43
    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    You can tell baseball's entered a brave, new world when we're questioning whether a team should trade a middle reliever for an everday CF.

    While I'd have probably made that deal (I'm old school on these matters), it is a legitimate question that never would have been asked prior to this decade.
    Think about this. The Boston Red Sox just traded a solid veteran CFer due to make almost $6M next season to the KC Royals for a pre-arb relief pitcher, and, as far as I know, no cash changed hands.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  15. #44
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj View Post
    Think about this. The Boston Red Sox just traded a solid veteran CFer due to make almost $6M next season to the KC Royals for a pre-arb relief pitcher, and, as far as I know, no cash changed hands.
    Crazy times. The good news is that league revenues are so strong that everyone can be a buyer (if not a mega-buyer).

    So are the Sox going to deal for Jake Peavy? That's my working guess.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  16. #45
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Coco Crisp Traded To The Royals

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    When two of your last four seasons are .688 and .704, I don't think you get to claim that's consistency. It should also be noted that he fell in the .703-.713 range from 2001-03.
    '05 was a lost year for Beltre no matter who he faced. '08 was driven by BABIP.

    For his career (OPS):
    vs RH: .779; PA: 4874;
    vs LH: .806; PA: 1526;


    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    but when the excuses are mounting higher than the supposed norms, I think we ought to recognize that we're talking about a volatile player.
    But they're not mounting.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


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