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Thread: Reds focused on acquiring bullpen help

  1. #46
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds focused on acquiring bullpen help

    Jocketty acknowledges that the market for relievers is inflated so I don't read this article as anything to be overly concerned about. I think he knows what he's doing, and Ghosts of Reds Front Offices Past notwithstanding, I'll remain cautiously optimistic.
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  3. #47
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Reds focused on acquiring bullpen help

    Really nothing in Walt's history suggests he'll go ape passed-bananas reloading the bullpen. In fact he's more likely to trade some of the relievers left for needs and then grab an arm or two off the junk heap or slot guys like Thompson and Bailey in pen roles.

  4. #48
    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: Reds focused on acquiring bullpen help

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    I don't know why some get up in arms when the Rays "plan" gets knocked. Having the lowest payroll in the game for years to ensure you finish dead last, having year after year of top 1-2 or 3 picks in the draft and finally stumbling on a winning team doesn't seem all that great. Yeah, they'll be pretty good for awhile - until these kids hit arb and they start trading them off. I'm not convinced this past season was the result of a long thought out plan as much as just doing a good job scouting for the draft. To me, that's the diff between the Rays and teams like the Reds or Royals or Pirates. The Rays did a really good job drafting guys while the Reds were picking Howington & Gruler, picking Kearns who busted, punting Sowers and picking Stubbs over Lincecum. The plan I do see happening is the Rays attempt to lock in some of these kids now to save money in the long haul so maybe there is a plan to try and keep their core together for a while. I'll give them credit for that - but not so much for any grand master plan that brought them to this point.
    Name all of the high 1st round picks, that the Rays drafted themselves, who were on their 2008 team.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  5. #49
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds focused on acquiring bullpen help

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    Maybe, but they were 52-26 in close games last year. Who's to say they can keep that up?
    How are you defining close games?
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  6. #50
    Member red-in-la's Avatar
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    Re: Reds focused on acquiring bullpen help

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    But how does that square up? We have about $54-57 million committed (depending on EE) and Walt says the payroll is going to be in the mid-$80s. He doesn't want to spend on a reliever (Affeldt), he doesn't want to spend on a SS (Greene). Obviously he was prepared to pay Coco Crisp $5 million, so according to his list of needs, all that leaves is a RH bat. Does he intend to spend $20-25 million on a RH bat?
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    Re: Reds focused on acquiring bullpen help

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj View Post
    Name all of the high 1st round picks, that the Rays drafted themselves, who were on their 2008 team.
    But be sure to put in the form of a question.......
    "Is there a problem officers?"

  8. #52
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    Re: Reds focused on acquiring bullpen help

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj View Post
    Name all of the high 1st round picks, that the Rays drafted themselves, who were on their 2008 team.
    Delmon Young, the player who fell to Tampa because of their draft position, was converted to Garza.

    They had a ton of pieces to work with because of their draft position; only recently did they start to pull off the trades that construct an actual team.

    If they sustain it, they've got themselves a model. Otherwise, they've benefitted largely from the current drafting model as much as anything else.

  9. #53
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds focused on acquiring bullpen help

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Delmon Young, the player who fell to Tampa because of their draft position, was converted to Garza.

    They had a ton of pieces to work with because of their draft position; only recently did they start to pull off the trades that construct an actual team.

    If they sustain it, they've got themselves a model. Otherwise, they've benefitted largely from the current drafting model as much as anything else.
    So really you can't comment further on this subject for like, say, another 5 years?
    Last edited by jojo; 11-21-2008 at 03:06 PM.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  10. #54
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Reds focused on acquiring bullpen help

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Delmon Young, the player who fell to Tampa because of their draft position, was converted to Garza.

    They had a ton of pieces to work with because of their draft position; only recently did they start to pull off the trades that construct an actual team.

    If they sustain it, they've got themselves a model. Otherwise, they've benefitted largely from the current drafting model as much as anything else.
    This is one reason why I hate the Reds current model.

    If you are going to suck, you may as well suck big time and be rewarded with a top 5 pick. Trying to "win now" and winning 75 games does nothing except worsen your draft spot and make you unsuccessful in executing your plan.

    Be realistic with your expectations and your team will be better in the long run.

  11. #55
    Member red-in-la's Avatar
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    Re: Reds focused on acquiring bullpen help

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Delmon Young, the player who fell to Tampa because of their draft position, was converted to Garza.

    They had a ton of pieces to work with because of their draft position; only recently did they start to pull off the trades that construct an actual team.

    If they sustain it, they've got themselves a model. Otherwise, they've benefitted largely from the current drafting model as much as anything else.


    FCB, you didn't phrase your answer in the form of a question.......
    "Is there a problem officers?"

  12. #56
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Reds focused on acquiring bullpen help

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    This guy's talking all kinds of sense. Thank you for saying this in the teeth of great opposition.

    One key injury to the Rays and they're shot in AL East. Cf. 1999 Reds.
    The 1999 Reds rotation was a season of over performance from average to below average pitchers and Pete Harnisch.

    The 2008 Rays have three STUDS at the top of the rotation under 26 years old.

    Not even close.

    In fact the 2009 Reds have more in common with the 2008 Rays than the 1999 Reds.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  13. #57
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds focused on acquiring bullpen help

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    One key injury to the Rays and they're shot in AL East. Cf. 1999 Reds.
    It's an interesting hypothetical. For instance, if their starting third baseman and starting left fielder were both to miss significant stretches during a pennant race. Then lets say their closer would make a couple trips to the DL during the season and maybe even their starting shortstop and starting first baseman would both also spend time there as well. On top of all of that lets suppose that their TOR lefty would barely be able to mamsie pamsie 150 IP. In that circumstance, it would be impossible for them to make the playoffs wouldn't it? Playing in the world series would certainly be a pipe dream?
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  14. #58
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Reds focused on acquiring bullpen help

    Weathers and Reds not done yet

    Free agent reliever David Weathers, recently said he had "flipped the page" about pitching again in Cincinnati. However, the Reds and the pitcher's agent still have communication lines open.

    "We're still negotiating and still talking," agent Danny Horwits said on Friday.

    Horwits, who estimated that a "half-dozen" teams were interested in his client, declined to handicap the odds that the 39-year-old Weathers might return to the Reds.

    "In terms of the process, everything is taking care of itself," Horwits said. "Other teams have gotten involved now that the market has opened. We're running through those teams and discussing their interest with David and also keeping the Reds informed."

    -- Mark Sheldon

    http://hotstove.mlblogs.com/archives..._done_yet.html

    The Reds are never going to get rid of David Weathers. He'll pitch for the Reds until he's 60.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  15. #59
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: Reds focused on acquiring bullpen help

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    What the Rays have is a process that begin with conscious decisions made by a FO assembled with purpose.

    Haggle about what to label it till the sun burns out..... but distilling the Rays down to "just suck long enough and anyone can win" is a shallow view that frankly is silly on the face of it.

    As a logical extension, I guess the Reds problem has been that they have sucked at sucking.
    Thanks for the nasty comments and distortions. Very helpful.

    It is pretty hard to avoid having a top farm system when you have a top-five pick every year for a decade.

    Top five in the first round, top five in the second round (almost like getting another first rounder), top five in the third round...

    Getting great prospects in the draft every year is a great way to make a front office look smart. That is how they can be so foolish as to lose a super-stud like Josh Hamilton for nothing and still have lots of talent to spare.

    Since the Reds have not gotten top-five picks at nearly the rate of the Rays it really isn't feasible to expect the Reds to follow the Rays' "model" with any hope of success.

  16. #60
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds focused on acquiring bullpen help

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    Thanks for the nasty comments and distortions. Very helpful.

    It is pretty hard to avoid having a top farm system when you have a top-five pick every year for a decade.

    Top five in the first round, top five in the second round (almost like getting another first rounder), top five in the third round...

    Getting great prospects in the draft every year is a great way to make a front office look smart. That is how they can be so foolish as to lose a super-stud like Josh Hamilton for nothing and still have lots of talent to spare.

    Since the Reds have not gotten top-five picks at nearly the rate of the Rays it really isn't feasible to expect the Reds to follow the Rays' "model" with any hope of success.
    That's a perfunctory look at the Rays that doesn't provide enough depth to offer any real analysis.

    There's nothing nasty meant by this statement either.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


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