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Thread: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

  1. #16
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    All of those players are 30lbs less then Chris Wells and Terrele Pryor. Beanie will be healthy during the bowl game. I don't see UC having the ability to stop him.

    I think UC would probably win 1 out of 10, the Big East is down this year. I think UC is likely the fourth or fifth best team in the Big Ten this year.

    Ohio State didn't back out of the 2012 game. UC and Ohio State can each make more money by the game being in Columbus. UC fans keep repeating this, but it comes down to the dollars. UC needs cash, and lots of it. Nippert seats ~35,000, PBS seats ~65,000, Ohio Stadium seats ~105,000. After Mike Brown gets his cut PBS isn't nearly as profitable as it should be.
    Whoa, what five teams from the Big 10 are better than UC? I gotta read this one.
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    All of those players are 30lbs less then Chris Wells and Terrele Pryor. Beanie will be healthy during the bowl game. I don't see UC having the ability to stop him.

    I think UC would probably win 1 out of 10, the Big East is down this year. I think UC is likely the fourth or fifth best team in the Big Ten this year.

    Ohio State didn't back out of the 2012 game. UC and Ohio State can each make more money by the game being in Columbus. UC fans keep repeating this, but it comes down to the dollars. UC needs cash, and lots of it. Nippert seats ~35,000, PBS seats ~65,000, Ohio Stadium seats ~105,000. After Mike Brown gets his cut PBS isn't nearly as profitable as it should be.
    Hate to say it, LB, but that's heavily biased and not very objective at all.

    In fact, the true colors show up on the basketball schedule. Because while the excuse can be made that non-conference schedules are made years in advance in football, there are PLENTY of non-conference games available in hoops. And like paint said, the only time OSU had any interest in UC on the court is when OSU had their strongest team in decades and UC had their weakest team in decades.

    That is sad right there.
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    UC is a good team, but they aren't at OSU's level. Sure, UC's defense could slow OSU offense a bit, but I don't think UC could score more than 14 points on OSU's defense.

    If the two teams were to play...I'd say 27-13 OSU. Not a blowout, but a convincing win. OSU just has more really good players.

    Is UC better than MSU or Northwestern? I don't know. If they are, it's not by much...and OSU beat each of those teams soundly on the road.
    Last edited by guttle11; 11-23-2008 at 03:14 PM.
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    This thread has potential...
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    People are saying that OSU isn't scared because they went to Texas and to USC to play, but I'm sorry losing at traditional powerhouse schools like Texas and USC doesn't hurt your program nearly as bad as losing to an in state school with little football reputation. Big difference IMO.

    If these teams were to play on a neutral field I would probably put my money on OSU, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with it. Saying OSU wins 9 out of 10 seems a little crazy to me. UC is tough against the run, and they have potential to make OSU throw more than they would like, just as they did with Pitt and WVU. I don't see how Pryor and Beanie outweighing White and Devine makes that much of a difference. UC held White and Devine to under 100 yards rushing, first team that's done that to WVU since Pat White has been their qb (and I think it's been even longer). Plus Pat White just set the record for most rushing yards from a QB in NCAA history...the guy is no slouch. I think OSU is a better team this year, but not by much. It would be a good game to watch.

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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    All of those players are 30lbs less then Chris Wells and Terrele Pryor. Beanie will be healthy during the bowl game. I don't see UC having the ability to stop him.

    I think UC would probably win 1 out of 10, the Big East is down this year. I think UC is likely the fourth or fifth best team in the Big Ten this year.

    Ohio State didn't back out of the 2012 game. UC and Ohio State can each make more money by the game being in Columbus. UC fans keep repeating this, but it comes down to the dollars. UC needs cash, and lots of it. Nippert seats ~35,000, PBS seats ~65,000, Ohio Stadium seats ~105,000. After Mike Brown gets his cut PBS isn't nearly as profitable as it should be.
    UC vs tOSU would be a good game, but UC IMO is better than every other team in the Big 11 (and that includes MSU and PSU).

    To say that UC is likely the 4th or 5th best team in the Big 11 this year is very laughable, and definitely the product of drinking too much Big 11 kool aid.

    But continue on with your pro-tOSU agenda...

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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    Hate to say it, LB, but that's heavily biased and not very objective at all.

    In fact, the true colors show up on the basketball schedule. Because while the excuse can be made that non-conference schedules are made years in advance in football, there are PLENTY of non-conference games available in hoops. And like paint said, the only time OSU had any interest in UC on the court is when OSU had their strongest team in decades and UC had their weakest team in decades.

    That is sad right there.
    So what would be objective? Saying that a team that has played decent ball, in a down conference, would be Ohio State's equal? I am sorry I just don't see it. You don't see me on here being a blow hard about how great Ohio State is. I am an OSU alum, and an unabashed supporter of UC basketball, and a fan of UC football (when OSU isn't on). Frankly I could care less about OSU basketball, I wish they would play UC, because I can actually follow UC, because they broadcast on a station with more power than a walkie talkie. I love Mick, and am really hopeful about this season. Too bad they lost the frosh PG, they needed him.
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    If you think UC is better than Penn State but worse than Ohio State...I don't know what to say. PSU and OSU look to be each other's equal.

    There's a lot of UC kool-aid drinking going on here, it's not a one way street. There's no way UC beats Ohio State 40% of the time. None. UC is not a top ten team, and OSU states dominates teams below top ten caliber with little exception. When's the last time OSU lost to a team like UConn? 2004?

    Don't focus on OSU offense against UC's defense. Find for me where UCs offense scores on OSU. That is the difference. OSU would score 20 on UC. Would UC score 20 on OSU?

    Highly, highly doubtful.
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Redlegs23 View Post
    People are saying that OSU isn't scared because they went to Texas and to USC to play, but I'm sorry losing at traditional powerhouse schools like Texas and USC doesn't hurt your program nearly as bad as losing to an in state school with little football reputation. Big difference IMO.

    If these teams were to play on a neutral field I would probably put my money on OSU, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with it. Saying OSU wins 9 out of 10 seems a little crazy to me. UC is tough against the run, and they have potential to make OSU throw more than they would like, just as they did with Pitt and WVU. I don't see how Pryor and Beanie outweighing White and Devine makes that much of a difference. UC held White and Devine to under 100 yards rushing, first team that's done that to WVU since Pat White has been their qb (and I think it's been even longer). Plus Pat White just set the record for most rushing yards from a QB in NCAA history...the guy is no slouch. I think OSU is a better team this year, but not by much. It would be a good game to watch.
    Chris Wells and Terrele Pryor are a whole different type of athlete then White and Devine. Power running versus finesse. Chris Wells has the ability to stiff arm the UC defensive lineman. I love Conner Barwin, but IMO, he is the only one Ohio State would be worried about, Byrd included. Lots of teams have tried to make OSU one dimensional since Pryor took the helm. No one has stopped them yet. If Pryor doesn't fumble against PSU, they are playing in the Rose Bowl.

    I admit the offensive line isn't very good, but I just don't think UC fans are being realistic.

    If UC catches Florida State in the Orange Bowl you will see what I mean. They just don't match up against top 10 talent, and there offensive scheme isn't something that will allow them to disguise that fact. They have a good plan, but aren't a crazy spread team like Boise State. Florida State is not a top ten team, but they have the talent. They will run right through UC.
    Last edited by LoganBuck; 11-23-2008 at 04:51 PM.
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    So what would be objective? Saying that a team that has played decent ball, in a down conference, would be Ohio State's equal? I am sorry I just don't see it.
    So the Big East is a down conference but the Big Ten isn't? This is what's amazing here.

    Let's go through the Big 10 team by team and see who the hell they've actually beat in their non-conference that's worth a crap:
    • Penn State blew out Oregon State - a good mark for the conference
    • Ohio State was blown out by USC
    • Michigan State lost at Cal and beat Notre Dame
    • Northwestern didn't play any non-conference teams worth a crap; their best win was against mighty Duke
    • Iowa lost at Pitt
    • Wisconsin didn't play any non-conference teams worth a crap; their best win was either Fresno State or that squeaker against Cal Poly
    • Minnesota didn't play any non-conference teams worth a crap; their best win was probably Northern Illinois
    • Illinois lost at Missouri
    • Purdue lost to Oregon, but did beat Central Michigan
    • Indiana was blown out by Ball State
    • Michigan lost to Utah and to Notre Dame

    Where's the Big Ten power at? Seriously? I see one very nice non-conference win - Penn State blowing out Oregon State. That's it. Their second and third best non-conference wins this year were probably Central Michigan and Notre Dame.

    I know the Big East didn't beat many teams in their non-conference either; UC's game at Oklahoma was by far the toughest test for the Big East. Pitt beat Iowa and Notre Dame and South Florida beat Kansas, which are probably the three best non-conference wins.

    The Big East is down, there's no denying that. They're the weakest of the six power conferences this year. But contrary to what many OSU fans might believe, the Big Ten isn't much better. The Big Ten is much closer to the Big East in quality than they are to the Big 12 or SEC.

    But if you're going to sit there and claim that UC is a decent ballclub in a down conference, then you better make that same claim about Ohio State. When it all comes down to it, with the exception of Penn State, Ohio State played in a conference once again this year who beat pretty much nobody in their non-conference schedule.
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    Ohio State didn't back out of the 2012 game. UC and Ohio State can each make more money by the game being in Columbus. UC fans keep repeating this, but it comes down to the dollars. UC needs cash, and lots of it. Nippert seats ~35,000, PBS seats ~65,000, Ohio Stadium seats ~105,000. After Mike Brown gets his cut PBS isn't nearly as profitable as it should be.
    Ohio State absolutely backed out of the game. It was UC who approached them about still playing the game in Columbus.
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    Michigan also lost to Toledo, Cyc.

    Ohio State came within a hair of crapping the bed against Ohio University.

    I think Ohio State is a better team than Cincinnati, but it isn't nearly by as much as Buckeye fans want to pretend. And it's sheer lunacy to say that Cincinnati would be the 5th best team in the Big 10. The only two teams I'd take over UC at a neutral location would be Penn State and Ohio State. For any other Big 11 teams, I'd need points before I bet.

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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    Ohio State would manhandle the Bearcats. I honestly believe that. I'm taking nothing away from UC, and I'm rooting for them. But it's two different levels. To state that OSU is "afraid" of UC is absurd. What, afraid of losing fans to them? Afraid of UC taking the throne as the top team in the state? Look, I like UC, and I'm rooting for them. But they were irrelevant before Kelly came to town. They seat 35,000 fans in their stadium, and have never had any sustained big time success. To state that the Buckeyes are afraid of them is going WAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY over the top.

    However, UC is clearly better than every team in the Big 10 not named Penn State or Ohio State. Both conference's are putrid, and I don't see how comparing them has anything to do with how competive Cincy would be in a game against one of the big boys. I think they could keep it close for a while, but in the end, OSU's depth, size, and overall better talent would just wear them down.

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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    Let's go through the Big 10 team by team and see who the hell they've actually beat in their non-conference that's worth a crap
    True in a sense Cyclone; but anymore a majority of the big clubs (conferences) fill there non-conference games vs over matched smaller schools. So lets just not pick on the Big 10. And in the past I've personally expressed my opposition to it. I can understand the reasoning as to why an OSU will put a couple of these smaller schools on their schedule at the beginning of the season - gives them recognition and a shot a playing a more recognized program, and throws money at that school.

    But it's gotten too ridiculous anymore IMO. There is no sound reason, IMO, for a Division 1-A school to be playing Division 1-AA schools. I just personally disagree with it regardless of the reasoning put out there.

    Penn State blew out Oregon State - a good mark for the conference
    Yes it was.

    Ohio State was blown out by USC
    A majority of OSU fans predicted this. USC was the #1 team, at that time, in the nation. And OSU, which was in for an uphill battle to begin with, had the odds further stacked against them when their running game took a huge hit with no Beanie Wells. No, they still would have lost IMO; but I don't think it would have been as big a blowout.

    Michigan State lost at Cal
    Cal is not a bad program. 7-4 overall. They beat Oregon, and are 6-0 at home this year.

    Iowa lost at Pitt
    Yep. By one point 21-20. But Pitt is no slouch either.

    Northwestern didn't play any non-conference teams worth a crap....Minnesota didn't play any non-conference teams worth a crap
    True.

    Wisconsin didn't play any non-conference teams worth a crap
    Two of their 4 opponents (Akron and Marshall) were on the Bearcat's schedule[/quote]

    Illinois lost at Missouri
    Who is #12 in the nation, and leading the Big 12 North.

    Purdue lost to Oregon
    Another quality program who was ranked #16 in the nation, and the game went into OT too.

    Indiana was blown out by Ball State
    When has Indiana's football program ever been a serious threat? Ball State is 11-0 and #15.

    Michigan lost to Utah
    They also lost to Toledo.

    But they lost to Utah, who is now ranked #8 by 2 pts 25-23. Everyone knows that this was going to be a down year for Michigan, and one of rebuilding/restocking the program.

    But those examples above simply show that Big 10 teams did play several quality non-conference opponents. I'm certainly not going to complain about that, regardless that they lost them.

    Where's the Big Ten power at?
    Where's the Big East power at?

    Other then their game vs the Sooners (which they got manhandled big time 52-26), who were the Bearcats non-conference games against?

    Division-1AA Ohio Valley Eastern Kentucky (8-3).
    Miami (OH) MAC (2-9)
    Akron MAC (5-6) gave the Bearcats a helluva a game too
    Marshall Conf. USA (4-7)
    Hawaii WAC (6-5)

    And their other loss, in which they got beat pretty handily 40-16, was against Connecticut.

    The Big East is down, there's no denying that. They're the weakest of the six power conferences this year. But contrary to what many OSU fans might believe, the Big Ten isn't much better. The Big Ten is much closer to the Big East in quality than they are to the Big 12 or SEC.
    I disagree with that assessment. No, the Big 10 is not on the level of the Big 12 and SEC. The Big 10 needs to rethink their approach to the game. Though I don't see the SEC as dominant overall, like they have been.

    The Big 12 has 5 teams in the top 25 (3 in the top 10)
    The SEC has 4 teams in the top 25 (2 in the top 10... #1 and #2 respectively)
    The Big 10 has 4 teams in the top 25 (2 in the top 10)
    The Big East has 1 team in the top 25.... the Bearcats at #16.
    Last edited by GAC; 11-24-2008 at 07:35 AM.
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    True in a sense Cyclone; but anymore a majority of the big clubs (conferences) fill there non-conference games vs over matched smaller schools. So lets just not pick on the Big 10. And in the past I've personally expressed my opposition to it. I can understand the reasoning as to why an OSU will put a couple of these smaller schools on their schedule at the beginning of the season - gives them recognition and a shot a playing a more recognized program, and throws money at that school.

    But it's gotten too ridiculous anymore IMO. There is no sound reason, IMO, for a Division 1-A school to be playing Division 1-AA schools. I just personally disagree with it regardless of the reasoning put out there.
    I agree it's gotten absurd.

    Where's the Big East power at?

    Other then their game vs the Sooners (which they got manhandled big time 52-26), who were the Bearcats non-conference games against?

    Division-1AA Ohio Valley Eastern Kentucky (8-3).
    Miami (OH) MAC (2-9)
    Akron MAC (5-6) gave the Bearcats a helluva a game too
    Marshall Conf. USA (4-7)
    Hawaii WAC (6-5)

    And their other loss, in which they got beat pretty handily 40-16, was against Connecticut.
    You've missed the point of my argument.

    Listen, I'm not stating that UC would roll Ohio State; they wouldn't. What I'm saying is that it'd be a pretty darn entertaining game and the notion that Ohio State would roll UC is unrealistic and biased. If UC and Ohio State played each other 100 times, who would win more? Most likely Ohio State, I'm sure. But would Ohio State win 90 of those games? Hardly.

    CE said it best: Ohio State is the better team, but it's nowhere near to the level that Buckeye fans want to pretend it is.

    I disagree with that assessment. No, the Big 10 is not on the level of the Big 12 and SEC. The Big 10 needs to rethink their approach to the game. Though I don't see the SEC as dominant overall, like they have been.
    I just checked the computer rankings that are in the BCS, and two of the three that have conference ratings have the Big East ranked higher than the Big Ten as a conference. So either the computer rankings are full of it, or the strength of the Big Ten conference is nothing more than a mere figment of people's imaginations.

    I'm not even claiming that the Big East is greater than the Big Ten; I'm merely claiming that the difference between the Big Ten and the Big East isn't all that much. And yes, the Big Ten is much closer to the Big East than they are the Big 12 and the SEC.

    FWIW, and this will ruffle some feathers ... when you combine the two major sports - football and basketball - the Big Ten IS the weakest of the six power conferences.
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