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Thread: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

  1. #76
    The wino and I know bucksfan's Avatar
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    As a background preluding my comments, I am an Ohio State alum, and very big basketball fan as well as football fan. I consider myself reasonable and fair at most times (except possibly during the games )

    What ticks me off in these discussions more than anything is not the actual factual arguments being made. There are good points on both sides; For instance, my take on 2 points brought up in this thread are :

    1) I do not like that we do not play UC in basketball regularly and don't really think any excuse is good enough. I'd love to see them play annually and I think any attempt to duck these matchups is ridiculous on OSU's part.

    2) However I think the hand-wringing about Ohio State's football schedule is unwarranted also. I don't care for the playing of Youngstown State, but besides that, they schedule home & homes with OOC BCS schools and play their conference schedule such as it is each year. I really don't think there is that much to complain about there from inside or out.

    But like I was saying, what really rubs me the wrong way, and I think what starts to seriously detract from the points being made, are generalized statements about "OSU fans" (or team X's fans) being obnoxious/arrogant/insert-word-of-your-choice here. When statements like that are made, the credibility of the rest of the statements gets clouded. Instantly I am taken aback because I certainly do not consider myself arrogant or obnoxious and I know many fellow Buckeyes are the same way. There are idiot fans of every school/team, and with OSU's large alumni base and proximity to this area, you'll see a bunch of them in scarlet and gray for sure. The minute one starts talking like they know how an entire fan base acts/thinks is the moment they are wrong. There are good points made on both sides as I acknowledged above, but it is hard to get into the discussion when these types of opinions are interspersed in the debate. Honestly it makes me want to say the same types of silly things in return, which obviously would be as inaccurate and useless as the initial comments and not really further the discussion.

    And also FWIW, I generally support X and UC (particularly X) in all of their endeavors when they are not playing the Bucks.
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  3. #77
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    The Big Ten has fallen behind in hoops and is evolving into a second tier conference rather than maintaining its status as a power conference; it's just not going to be near the same level with the Big East or ACC in hoops without a shakeup.
    First off.... I don't think the Big 10 is becoming a "second tier" conference in basketball. Since 2000, we've had 4 Big 10 teams in the championship game. The Big 10 has placed a team(s) in the Final Four 6 of the last 10 years. That's not second tier IMO.

    Why do some colleges really excel in one sport, but don't in another? Because some college programs place more emphasis on one sport over another. They see it as their "bread n butter", and that is where they place their emphasis.

    Why do conferences like the Atlantic 10 and ACC really excel in basketball? Well, with the A10, that is where their emphasis is, and some don't even have football programs. Why is Duke a powerhouse in basketball, but not in football? Why can't the Hoosiers show the same success in football that they have in basketball?

    And it's possible that it probably comes down to cost when looking at football vs basketball.
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  4. #78
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    First off.... I don't think the Big 10 is becoming a "second tier" conference in basketball. Since 2000, we've had 4 Big 10 teams in the championship game. The Big 10 has placed a team(s) in the Final Four 6 of the last 10 years. That's not second tier IMO.
    Their conference RPI last season was closer to the Atlantic 10 and Missouri Valley Conference than it was to any of the other five power conferences. If you broke out the conferences in groups, you'd have five power conferences in one tier followed by the Big Ten, A-10, and MVC in the next tier.

    The Big Ten has typically had one or two legitimately excellent basketball teams each season, but the overall conference has greatly diminished. There's just not much quality depth, and this season isn't any different. The lack of quality depth is what drags the conference down. The Big Ten's third, fourth, fifth best teams are subpar when compared to the other power conferences.

    Right now this season the Big ten has only three teams in the top 25, and by next week that may be down to two since Connecticut blew Wisconsin out last night. Michigan State and Purdue are legit, but the rest of the conference won't hold up their end of the show.
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    The Big Ten will be better than the SEC in hoops, maybe the Pac 10 too.

    Michigan State and Purdue will be really good. Ohio State and Michigan (who already beat UCLA on a neutral floor) should both make the dance, as should Wisconsin. Illinois looks like an NIT team, but one that could make the dance if they steal a win or two on the road. Everyone but IU and Northwestern should have a quality team.
    Last edited by guttle11; 11-25-2008 at 10:57 AM.
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  6. #80
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    As I said several posts back, Ohio State's true athletic department colors show with their basketball program. They ducked UC for nearly two decades during the Huggins era and hid behind the Damon Flint excuse. Ohio State just couldn't see themselves playing a decent in-state team from Conference USA. So long as Bob Huggins was around, Ohio State was never going to play UC, or so was the apparent claim. They only agreed to play UC when UC had one of its worst teams in decades and Ohio State had one of its best teams in decades. And when Cronin approached Matta about playing regularly, Matta brushed him off.

    Now it's two years later and we see Ohio State's excuse about not playing Huggins was merely a convenient excuse for the time.
    That's fine, you might be right with this one, because I don't follow college basketball all that closely. That wasn't the part of your argument that bothered me...
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  7. #81
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    That's fine, you might be right with this one, because I don't follow college basketball all that closely. That wasn't the part of your argument that bothered me...
    Much of this originated with the basketball programs. The two schools don't like each other because of basketball; that's the simple way of putting it. I'm glad there are Buckeyes fans out there like bucksfan who want a UC/OSU annual basketball game to be played. I'm sure a bunch of Buckeyes fans want that game. UC fans want the game. UC themselves want the game. Too bad the Buckeyes AD shows no interest in listening to anybody about it.

    It just carries over to the football programs now because it's eerily similar with what's been occurring on the basketball side for decades.
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  8. #82
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    Much of this originated with the basketball programs. The two schools don't like each other because of basketball; that's the simple way of putting it. I'm glad there are Buckeyes fans out there like bucksfan who want a UC/OSU annual basketball game to be played. I'm sure a bunch of Buckeyes fans want that game. UC fans want the game. UC themselves want the game. Too bad the Buckeyes AD shows no interest in listening to anybody about it.

    It just carries over to the football programs now because it's eerily similar with what's been occurring on the basketball side for decades.
    IIRC, we can thank Andy Geiger for the hoops mess.

  9. #83
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    And it's possible that it probably comes down to cost when looking at football vs basketball.
    That, and the fact that taxpayer-supported public institutions, such as Ohio State and Cincinnati, are keeping other taxpayer-supported public institutions, such as Ohio University and University of Toledo, from sitting at the big-boy table when it comes to football by denying them access to the big-dollar BCS system.

    No question that it's cheaper to field a good basketball team than it is to field a good football team -- but it's also an undeniable fact that the NCAA is much more "inclusive" when it comes to giving everyone a fair shake in hoops than they are in the football world.
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  10. #84
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hap View Post
    Is there any chance that his ratings are down and he only said that as a stunt to get people to talk about his show?

    .
    The most recent book would suggest that the ratings are just fine.

    I'd love to see Ohio State and UC play more often than they do...and now that UC is in a BCS conference, maybe they can get it done...home and home every other year or something...they should revisit the idea.
    Last edited by Matt700wlw; 11-25-2008 at 05:50 PM.

  11. #85
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    I think football versus basketball is apples and oranges in this case. Up until the past few years, UC was actually the stronger program and there really was no legitimate reason for OSU not to play UC annually. For football, I think there are legitimate financial reasons why OSU chooses not to play UC in Cincy every other year (or any year for that matter). You might not like those reasons, but from a financial standpoint, they at least make sense, and they've been laid out in this thread fairly well. And I think if we're all being honest we'd realize that's the nature of their decision. It's financial. Does it suck? Sure. But it's following the pattern of what every other top tier program does, so it's not something unique to OSU.

    I'd love to see it become an annual game played in both locations. And I'd love for it to become relevant as well. OSU needs a second rivalry game. But under the current environment of college football, it's just not likely to happen.
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  12. #86
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Buckeyes vs Bearcats (Gary Jeff Walker)

    Very well put Mike. And financial is the bottom line.
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