Turn Off Ads?

View Poll Results: Who is Redszone's #20 Prospect?

Voters
83. You may not vote on this poll
  • Alex Buchholz

    12 14.46%
  • Dallas Buck

    8 9.64%
  • Ismael Guillon

    2 2.41%
  • Ryan Hanigan

    14 16.87%
  • Chris Heisey

    10 12.05%
  • Danny Ray Herrera

    0 0%
  • Sean Henry

    0 0%
  • Evan Hildenbrandt

    4 4.82%
  • Jeremy Horst

    1 1.20%
  • Ben Jukich

    0 0%
  • Sam Lecure

    5 6.02%
  • Robert Manuel

    3 3.61%
  • Adam Rosales

    4 4.82%
  • Jordan Smith

    0 0%
  • Juan Carlos Sulbaran

    8 9.64%
  • Justin Turner

    8 9.64%
  • Pedro Viola

    1 1.20%
  • Brandon Waring

    1 1.20%
  • Sean Watson

    0 0%
  • Travis Wood

    2 2.41%
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 38

Thread: Who is Redszone's #20 Prospect?

  1. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,511

    Re: Who is Redszone's #20 Prospect?

    I wasn't thinking so much of guys already among the top 19 as I was of people getting votes in this round: Turner, Rosales, Heisey, Hanigan etc. But since you ask, OBM, I've had Hildenbrandt ahead of the last several players and if he'd ever get taken, I'd probably have Sulbaran also ahead of several of the last picks. Guys who project as fourth outfielders and utility infielders--even if sure things to play in the majors--rate below--specifically as prospects--potential starting pitchers like Hildenbrandt, at least IMHO.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    4,653

    Re: Who is Redszone's #20 Prospect?

    I'm very high on Hildebrandt, too. I have him 18th on my top 40, ahead of Roenicke, Fisher, Cozart, Turner and even Dorn. But I haven't voted for him yet here because I'm still working on my No. 9 guy (Hanigan), with Heisey, Horst and Buchholz still lined up in front of him. In my mind, the only thing holding Hildebrandt back is the absence of a significant body of work. I like what I've seen and heard -- just haven't seen and heard enough. I don't doubt that, this time next year, he could be held in the same esteem by which Lotzkar is now regarded.

  4. #18
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,052

    Re: Who is Redszone's #20 Prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    I wasn't thinking so much of guys already among the top 19 as I was of people getting votes in this round: Turner, Rosales, Heisey, Hanigan etc. But since you ask, OBM, I've had Hildenbrandt ahead of the last several players and if he'd ever get taken, I'd probably have Sulbaran also ahead of several of the last picks. Guys who project as fourth outfielders and utility infielders--even if sure things to play in the majors--rate below--specifically as prospects--potential starting pitchers like Hildenbrandt, at least IMHO.
    I can see your arguments against Turner, Heisey and even Hanigan somewhat but not Rosales. That said if you want people to look at him more seriously perhaps you should say more than he has a high ceiling. State your case with something to make all take him more serious. I mean we don't all have a scouting report on everyone. Give us a reason to change our mind.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  5. #19
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,722

    Re: Who is Redszone's #20 Prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Hildenbrandt again. Interesting to me that this board really doesn't put much emphasis on upside at all. Guys are considered to be prospects who frankly, even at their best, will be among the dozens of basically fungible units out there while guys like Hildenbrandt--farther away from the bigs but with significant upside at the most important position on the field--get overlooked. Must be because the Reds have been so bad for so long--and their farm system so barren--that anybody who looks like he'll be a major leaguer is considered an important prospect.
    You are probably right and I know I'm guilty as charged. I just can't rate a pitcher who fell so far in the draft and hasn't really established anything in the full season minors yet. There is a ton that can go wrong between the rookie leagues and the majors, so unless the kid has a major buzz about him that that would make him a guy who could be dealt for a nice return, he doesn't seem to have as much value to me, but you are probably right if we're just talking ceiling. Of course, giving ceiling so much weight would usually fill the top of the list with recent draft picks who haven't really had the time to expose their warts yet and I don't really like that either. Its the biggest knock that I have on BA and their lists, but that's just me. I'm equal opportunity though and not just anti-young pitcher, I didn't rate Juan Duran or Yorman Rodriguez either. I have a feeling that next year at this time Hildenbrandt, Duran, Rodriguez, Sulbarren and Buchholz may all be in my top 10. I hope so.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  6. #20
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    North Kansas City, Mo
    Posts
    5,669

    Re: Who is Redszone's #20 Prospect?

    I don't vote for guys like Dickerson, Janish, Rosales and Hanigan because I simply don't see them as prospects. A combination of age, experience in the minors and cups of ML coffee combine to put them in a different category, at least for me. They aren't really major leaguers full fledged just yet but they are so close and so well known there is little left prospect wise. They are at a point I call Do it or Done. And that's the line between them and say Homer. He's not at that point yet where you say well either he does it now or he never will. Then there are the two other types of prospects - the Billings and GCL kids who have such brief glimpses and in very different kinds of leagues (Billings very short and an extreme hitters environment; GCL extreme pitching environment and very instructional) that you can't really get too high or too low yet; and the international kids who are still cutting teeth in Caribbean and Latin leagues and are so very far away - its hard to ignore Rodriguez or Duran or Guilon but its really, really premature to call them prospects. Adding kids from either of these groups is kind of cheating, a useful ploy to prop up a system perhaps but not realistic.

  7. #21
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    11,431

    Re: Who is Redszone's #20 Prospect?

    When he was drafted, I believe Hildenbrandt was viewed as a reliever down the line because he's a little too wild with his secondary pitches.

  8. #22
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    34,844

    Re: Who is Redszone's #20 Prospect?

    Only 63 votes with a little over 15 hours left of voting. That's why I was planning on waiting until yesterday morning to start the next poll and leave it open for three days because I figured traffic on here would slow down on Thanksgiving and Black Friday.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  9. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,511

    Re: Who is Redszone's #20 Prospect?

    One thing that caused Hildenbrandt to slip in the draft, IIRC, is that he made it clear he wanted third round money, which, again IIRC, the Reds gave him. And then to rely on a non-sabermetrics act of perception, I really like his mechanics, based on what I've seen in the admittedly very brief scouting video. I don't see any obvious stress points for injury, in a way that, unfortunately, jump out at one when looking at Lotzkar, for instance, whom I am really high on but worry about a lot.

  10. #24
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,072

    Re: Who is Redszone's #20 Prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    When he was drafted, I believe Hildenbrandt was viewed as a reliever down the line because he's a little too wild with his secondary pitches.
    No, he came out and only had his fastball and curveball. It was noted he would be a good reliever IF he couldn't develop a third pitch. He is still working on it, but his fastball is fine and his curveball is a very good. He is now throwing a change up as well as a sinker to go along with his fastball and curve.

  11. #25
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    34,844

    Re: Who is Redszone's #20 Prospect?

    Project Prospect on Neftali Soto:

    Sully Select: Neftali Soto must have known that the Midwest league is usually tough on young hitters. Following Soto’s stint in rookie-ball in 2008 – where he abused Pioneer league pitching to the tune of a .388/.423/.746 line, Soto managed not only to continue to make solid contact in the Midwest league, but hit for power as well (.500 slugging). Discipline remains an issue with Soto as it does with many youngsters, but his bat is lethal and he should continuing proving that in the upper levels.

    http://www.projectprospect.com/artic...org-nl-central
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  12. #26
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    230

    Re: Who is Redszone's #20 Prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    and nothing about Turner's game is better at all.
    I have to disagree about Turner's game. I can think of a few things that are better than Rosales at this point. I think Turner is better defensively. He turns the best double play in the Reds farm system. He can play LF,RF,3B,SS,2B,1B. The Reds have had him play all these positions. He could even C if they needed him to. I think one of the reasons Valaika is still at SS is because they have Turner at 2B and is a far better defensive player on the right side of the diamond. Turner's offensive number are pretty good too.

    Fact: Turner has put up better numbers in the minors than Rosales. Turner has hit .300+ in 2 out of 3 years. Rosales has hit 300+ in 1 out of 4.
    Turner .310/.377/.445/.822
    Rosales .285/.360/.484/.844

    I wouldn't say "nothing about Turner's game is better at all". The numbers don't lie. I like Adam Rosales. I've seen him play and I love his approach and the way he play's the game. Turner and Rosales are both "Baseball Players".They don't have all the tools but they play the game right.

  13. #27
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    11,431

    Re: Who is Redszone's #20 Prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    No, he came out and only had his fastball and curveball. It was noted he would be a good reliever IF he couldn't develop a third pitch. He is still working on it, but his fastball is fine and his curveball is a very good. He is now throwing a change up as well as a sinker to go along with his fastball and curve.
    Sounds good. I'm not sure who I'm thinking of then.

  14. #28
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,052

    Re: Who is Redszone's #20 Prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRed07 View Post
    I have to disagree about Turner's game. I can think of a few things that are better than Rosales at this point. I think Turner is better defensively. He turns the best double play in the Reds farm system. He can play LF,RF,3B,SS,2B,1B. The Reds have had him play all these positions. He could even C if they needed him to. I think one of the reasons Valaika is still at SS is because they have Turner at 2B and is a far better defensive player on the right side of the diamond. Turner's offensive number are pretty good too.
    That's fine that you think Turner's defense is better, but that doesn't stand as proof that he is. Rosales has also played the positions you listed so I don't understand your point there.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRed07 View Post
    Fact: Turner has put up better numbers in the minors than Rosales. Turner has hit .300+ in 2 out of 3 years. Rosales has hit 300+ in 1 out of 4.
    Turner .310/.377/.445/.822
    Rosales .285/.360/.484/.844

    I wouldn't say "nothing about Turner's game is better at all". The numbers don't lie. I like Adam Rosales. I've seen him play and I love his approach and the way he play's the game. Turner and Rosales are both "Baseball Players".They don't have all the tools but they play the game right.
    I'll give you BA but Rosales has more pop and as much if not better plate discipline. That makes him the better offensive player at least potentially. Rosales can improve/maintain his BA and is more likely too because he has more power, it's not a given to be sure but Turner's lack of power at the major league level makes him a marginal starter at best. Not only that but Rosales has already conquered AAA which Turner hasn't even stepped foot into yet. So at worst it's a push (if Turner is definitively better defensively in all those spots) but it's quite a bit more likely Rosales is the better eventual player.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  15. #29
    Member SMcGavin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    1,483

    Re: Who is Redszone's #20 Prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Not only that but Rosales has already conquered AAA which Turner hasn't even stepped foot into yet. So at worst it's a push (if Turner is definitively better defensively in all those spots) but it's quite a bit more likely Rosales is the better eventual player.
    Conquered AAA with a .287/.339/.463 line as a 25 year old?

  16. #30
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,072

    Re: Who is Redszone's #20 Prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by SMcGavin View Post
    Conquered AAA with a .287/.339/.463 line as a 25 year old?
    He hit .337 and slugged .564 over the last three months of the AAA season. He started off really slow, but really turned around his season.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25