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Thread: A few arguments against a CFB playoff

  1. #16
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: A few arguments against a CFB playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    The only reason tOSU fans like the status quo is that they might be able to sneak in the BCS Championship game again and possibly win whereas with a playoff, they would get eliminated before the championship game.
    Come on, chip. That's garbage and you know it. Most OSU fans I know would love to have a playoff. Some don't want it, but some fans of every school doesn't want it.

    The team from two years ago might have very well made it to the title game. They laid an egg in that game, but doesn't mean they weren't a legit team. Plus, a playoff would mean teams were playing at the end of the regular season and not 5 weeks later. Last year's team was just lucky. They were never that good to begin with and were it not for a bizarre season, they never would have got there.

    But the 2005 team at the end of the season could have played with anyone. I would have LOVED for a playoff that year. I'm not suggesting they would have won, but they very well could have. The second half of the season Tressell finally wised up and put Troy Smith in the starting role. But the end of the season, he was playing great every week. And that defense with AJ Hawk is the best defense they've had in the Tressell era, maybe even better than the National Championship team.

    But to suggest that Buckeye fans are scared of a playoff is assinine.
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  3. #17
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: A few arguments against a CFB playoff

    There are 0 sensible arguments in favor of the current system other than:

    1.) It's making money the way it is.

    2.) The people in charge hate change.

    All the other points are bollocks, IMO. Rivalry week would still be important because an OSU / Michigan game could directly impact either team's chances of winning their conference and securing an automatic bid to the playoffs. The "fans traveling" argument is similarly bunk -- most of these big bowl games are hot tickets for sports fans in general, especially locally in the cities they're held. Plus, let's be honest -- the schools that are going to be involved in these games have enough rabid fans that people will travel to all these games to some extent.

    Finally, the "best team" argument is just tired. Every major sport other than D1 football uses a playoff. Who is the best team in any given season? Whoever wins in the playoffs and championship game. Any talk about "who was really the best" is just sour grapes from a team that choked when the chips were down (see: Patriots c.2007).

    D1 football needs a playoff. I'm not being facetious when I say that it's something I'd LIKE our President-to-be to at least keep bringing up. The status quo sucks and it needs to change yesterday.
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  4. #18
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: A few arguments against a CFB playoff

    I agree that the "fans traveling" argument is a pretty weak one. How many fans travel to the super bowl? Very few. Are people actually suggesting that these games would have a hard time selling tickets?
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    Re: A few arguments against a CFB playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    I agree that the "fans traveling" argument is a pretty weak one. How many fans travel to the super bowl? Very few. Are people actually suggesting that these games would have a hard time selling tickets?
    I think this is a bigger thing than many realize. Fans traveling to playoff games would get very very expensive. The Super Bowl is one thing but I would be interested to see how many tickets are alloted to each team as opposted to how many tickets go to football fans.

    I also think the comparison to the basketball tournament is a little weak. Colin Cowheard was talking about this the other day. During the first weekend of the tournament there are a lot of empty seats. You don't want that for a college football game. Lets assume a 16 team Playoff and OSU or a northern team makes it to the championship game. 4 weeks of travel to 4 southern cities in order to attend all the games. It would be tough to round up 30000+ fans for each team to fill the stadium up.

    I would be all for a 16 team playoff in which the first two or three rounds are played at the higher ranked teams home. I would love to see a southern team travel to Columbus, Ann Arbour, Happy Valley, etc. in order to play a playoff game. If they don't grant at least one home playoff game to the better team then I will never be for a playoff.

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    Re: A few arguments against a CFB playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    I agree that the "fans traveling" argument is a pretty weak one. How many fans travel to the super bowl? Very few. Are people actually suggesting that these games would have a hard time selling tickets?
    At an NCAA tournament game, a 20,000 seat arena is divided into 8 sections for the 8 teams. So each team brings around 2000ish people. That is alot different than 40,000. Also, would you really want 8/16 games with lame "Super Bowl" crowds?

    To me the issue isn't with the playoff, it is with the scheduling of the regular season. The NCAA should step in and regulate the schedule in and out of conference, and even the playing field. Force teams to play better out of conference games that would weed out some of the pretenders and would create a more equitable situation.
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    Re: A few arguments against a CFB playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    To me the issue isn't with the playoff, it is with the scheduling of the regular season. The NCAA should step in and regulate the schedule in and out of conference, and even the playing field. Force teams to play better out of conference games that would weed out some of the pretenders and would create a more equitable situation.

    That would be a good situation but that chages from year to year and schedules are made out several years in advance. If someone wanted to schedule Michigan or Notre Dame for this season 5 years ago, it would have looked like a tough game. As we know now, that would probably not be the case. Five years ago, someone may have thought UC was an easy win. We know now that's not true. Maybe you can stop teams from scheduling FCS (1-AA) teams but a lot of those teams could beat lower level 1-A teams.
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    Re: A few arguments against a CFB playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    That would be a good situation but that chages from year to year and schedules are made out several years in advance. If someone wanted to schedule Michigan or Notre Dame for this season 5 years ago, it would have looked like a tough game. As we know now, that would probably not be the case. Five years ago, someone may have thought UC was an easy win. We know now that's not true. Maybe you can stop teams from scheduling FCS (1-AA) teams but a lot of those teams could beat lower level 1-A teams.
    Yeah, but they could prevent teams from playing 1-AA opponents for the cheap easy payday.
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    Re: A few arguments against a CFB playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    There are 0 sensible arguments in favor of the current system other than:
    Here is one:
    The single most watched, talked about, disected, important and riveting regular season of any sport. As soon as you make any type of playoff you will diminish the regular season. To what degree you do this will be the only question.

    I'm not saying the current system is perfect or that I neccessarily disagree with a playoff but to say there is no good reason to keep the status quo is not true.

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    Re: A few arguments against a CFB playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc D View Post
    Here is one:
    The single most watched, talked about, disected, important and riveting regular season of any sport. As soon as you make any type of playoff you will diminish the regular season. To what degree you do this will be the only question.

    I'm not saying the current system is perfect or that I neccessarily disagree with a playoff but to say there is no good reason to keep the status quo is not true.
    i don't buy that at all. March Madness is way more popular than the BCS. Just because people are talking about it, does not mean it's a good thing. It's not doing anything to garner interest or help the bottom line. It's a source of frustration for most fans. Just getting attention because of that is not a plus. It would garner much more interest if there were a playoff.
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    Re: A few arguments against a CFB playoff

    I think football is totally different, I know if they played say.......Oklahoma and Boise State in a city near me, I'd go. I don't think they'd have ANY problem whatsoever selling tickets to a 3 round (week) playoff. If things stay like they are, I think it would be great to not allow any published ratings until say.....week 4. To enable preseason biases from coming into play, since polls matter so much.
    Last edited by hebroncougar; 11-30-2008 at 10:10 PM.

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    Re: A few arguments against a CFB playoff

    Everyone wants a playoff. Then do it right. 16 teams, first 3 rounds at the home stadiums of the higher ranked teams. Finals at a neutral site. Eliminate the bowls.

  13. #27
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    Re: A few arguments against a CFB playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by SandyD View Post
    Everyone wants a playoff. Then do it right. 16 teams, first 3 rounds at the home stadiums of the higher ranked teams. Finals at a neutral site. Eliminate the bowls.
    I don't know that you can completely eliminate the bowls without effectively admitting that roughly 70% of the D1-A programs exist for no purpose other than to be tune-up games for the BCS squads and give students something to do on a Saturday other than sit in bed with a hangover.

    Under a 16-team, no bowls, system you'd have entire D1-A conferences effectively eliminated from postseason play by week 2 or 3 (assuming that voting continues to banish mid-majors to the hinderlands once they pick up a loss).

    The lesser bowls might not be talked about, but for a lot of schools (like my own alma mater Tulane), it's really all they have to play for each season. I'm not certain it's a good idea to get rid of them entirely, especially if the "playoff" is going to be 16 teams.
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    Re: A few arguments against a CFB playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I don't know that you can completely eliminate the bowls without effectively admitting that roughly 70% of the D1-A programs exist for no purpose other than to be tune-up games for the BCS squads and give students something to do on a Saturday other than sit in bed with a hangover.

    Under a 16-team, no bowls, system you'd have entire D1-A conferences effectively eliminated from postseason play by week 2 or 3 (assuming that voting continues to banish mid-majors to the hinderlands once they pick up a loss).

    The lesser bowls might not be talked about, but for a lot of schools (like my own alma mater Tulane), it's really all they have to play for each season. I'm not certain it's a good idea to get rid of them entirely, especially if the "playoff" is going to be 16 teams.
    That's why I'm in favor of the current BCS becoming a playoff. Take the 8 teams that go now and turn it into a playoff. You'd add only 3 games overall.

    And you could keep the rest of the bowl games.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

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    Re: A few arguments against a CFB playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    That's why I'm in favor of the current BCS becoming a playoff. Take the 8 teams that go now and turn it into a playoff. You'd add only 3 games overall.

    And you could keep the rest of the bowl games.
    10 teams play in BCS bowls now, with the addition of the separate title game. For a playoff system to happen, it has to have at least 10 teams.

    To me, conferences are too big to have a legit playoff system. Shrink them down to no more than 10 teams, which can force every team to play its entire league every year. Everyone plays 11 games in total. Then you have a more true champion without the extra conference title game.

    You have a computer system (that people far smarter than I develop) to rank the top 8 leagues. The winners of those 8 leagues are guaranteed spots in the playoff, with the top 4 non-champs receiving at-large spots. The top 4 conference champs get byes in the first round, which gives us a model of the NFL playoffs from there.

    In this system, the most games a team can play is 16, which is perfectly reasonable. If high school state champs can do it with as little as 30 players, college teams can too.
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    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: A few arguments against a CFB playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    i don't buy that at all. March Madness is way more popular than the BCS. Just because people are talking about it, does not mean it's a good thing. It's not doing anything to garner interest or help the bottom line. It's a source of frustration for most fans. Just getting attention because of that is not a plus. It would garner much more interest if there were a playoff.

    March Madness is at the end of the season, its not the sports regular season. No other sport has as much weight on the regular season as CFB, its not even close. You lose one game and you lose control of your own destiny for the NC game. No other sport has what is essentially a single elimination tournament that starts from opening day and goes the entire season.

    As far as frustrated fans clamoring for a playoff being a negative I would disagree. They watch the games in droves, they go to the games in droves, they listen/subscribe to all the different media outlets that discuss the game in droves. The people who make money off of the current system make it in droves.

    What is the downside? Fans wanting something different? They spend money on the current product then spend more money/get exposed to advertising complaining about the current system. Why would any logical business man in the world change that?

    The only way the current system will change is if 1) fans stop spending money on the current product 2) they think they can make more somehow.

    #1 just isn't going to happen. CFB is too popular, too ingrained in the culture of places where it flourishes. No season ticket holder at a big time school is going to do anything to lose those tickets because he knows there is a line behind him ready to jump on them.

    #2 could happen in theory but in my opinion the barrier to entry is simply too high. They make so much money now its probably impossible to get them to try and risk tinkering with it.

    Lastly I would say remember this point as well. This revenue chasing we keep discussing like its something indecent or immoral isn't going into one persons pocket. It goes to the schools and it does a lot of good for a lot of people outside the football programs.

    If you are an OSU lets say, you have a responsibility to the country's largets athletic program and thousands of local business people to keep the coffers full. You simply do not have the luxury of messing with that out of some sense of fairplay for a faction of the fan base no matter how large or small it may be.


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