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Thread: 2008-09 BCS Discussion/Projections

  1. #46
    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: 2008-09 BCS Discussion/Projections

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    The non-traveling team thing I can give you...

    "Clunker matchups," however ... have there been any bigger "clunker matchups" in recent seasons than OSU vs. the SEC?

    again, fan perspective vs business perspective.

    Its easy to look back in hindsight and say the games were boring because OSU was blown out. I guarantee you as a Bowl game promoter you would rather have OSU vs another big time school than say the Orange Bowl's potential UC vs BC matchup. Not a swipe at UC or BC, just economics. Texas/ND/OSU/PSU type schools just have much larger fanbases, they travel like mad and spend a ton of money.

    Like the poster said above, if you ever hear the chatter from people responsible for putting these games on they dread the possibility of getting things like the Pitt/Utah game a few years back. They could care less who wins, they just want a lot of people to show up to watch and spend money.

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  3. #47
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: 2008-09 BCS Discussion/Projections

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    What if Bama barely loses to Florida? Wouldnt they have as good an argument as any of the other 1 loss teams? I love it. All the disagreements and all the games havent even been played yet!
    Absolutely. They'd have one loss to a good team. Why should the timing of that loss matter?
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    Re: 2008-09 BCS Discussion/Projections

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    Absolutely. They'd have one loss to a good team. Why should the timing of that loss matter?
    Lloyd Carr has been wondering that for 2 years, I'll bet.
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    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: 2008-09 BCS Discussion/Projections

    The interesting thing to me is the reason Oklahoma is in the Big 12 title game is due to the computers. Texas actually made up ground this week in the human polls.

    The reasons? Kansas beat Missouri. Texas had beaten Missouri earlier while Oklahoma beat Kansas earlier this season. Also, Oklahoma has two OOC wins over top-15 teams while Texas has none. It just so happens that now the computers have Oklahoma as the best team in the country.

    The difference between Oklahoma and Texas wasn't settled on their field of play. Instead, it was settled on the field of play of their earlier opponents. Had Missouri taken care of business on Saturday, we'd likely have a different outcome.
    What if this wasn't a rhetorical question?

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    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: 2008-09 BCS Discussion/Projections

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    The interesting thing to me is the reason Oklahoma is in the Big 12 title game is due to the computers. Texas actually made up ground this week in the human polls.

    The reasons? Kansas beat Missouri. Texas had beaten Missouri earlier while Oklahoma beat Kansas earlier this season. Also, Oklahoma has two OOC wins over top-15 teams while Texas has none. It just so happens that now the computers have Oklahoma as the best team in the country.

    The difference between Oklahoma and Texas wasn't settled on their field of play. Instead, it was settled on the field of play of their earlier opponents. Had Missouri taken care of business on Saturday, we'd likely have a different outcome.

    Indeed.

    Mizzou taking care of business might still come into play. The B12 CCG has had a lot of upsets over the years.

  7. #51
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: 2008-09 BCS Discussion/Projections

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    The interesting thing to me is the reason Oklahoma is in the Big 12 title game is due to the computers. Texas actually made up ground this week in the human polls.

    The reasons? Kansas beat Missouri. Texas had beaten Missouri earlier while Oklahoma beat Kansas earlier this season. Also, Oklahoma has two OOC wins over top-15 teams while Texas has none. It just so happens that now the computers have Oklahoma as the best team in the country.

    The difference between Oklahoma and Texas wasn't settled on their field of play. Instead, it was settled on the field of play of their earlier opponents. Had Missouri taken care of business on Saturday, we'd likely have a different outcome.
    But couldn't you make the same argument about Texas Tech over Texas?

    Either we look at things beyone the head to head game or we don't. I don't think it's equitable to call out the head to head for Texas Oklahomas without looking at the other games while doing the exact opposite for Texas Tech.
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    Re: 2008-09 BCS Discussion/Projections

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    But couldn't you make the same argument about Texas Tech over Texas?

    Either we look at things beyone the head to head game or we don't. I don't think it's equitable to call out the head to head for Texas Oklahomas without looking at the other games while doing the exact opposite for Texas Tech.

    Texas Tech's problem was that they were initially ranked so low compared to Texas and Oklahoma. When they eventually lost, they took a greater fall that Texas and Oklahoma did when they lost. Of course, under a playoff, Texas Tech may not even make the field unless you have several at large entries.
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    Re: 2008-09 BCS Discussion/Projections

    Texas > OU +10
    Texas Tech > Texas +6
    OU > Texas Tech +44

    So basically OU is rewarded for blowing out Texas Tech, who barely beat Texas (in the last play of regulation), and it's almost an after thought that Texas beat OU by 10 (since that happened back on 10/11...)

    I just don't get it.

    Essentially, Texas Tech becomes worthless in the equation, and that's why OU is ranked ahead of Texas?

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    Re: 2008-09 BCS Discussion/Projections

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Texas > OU +10
    Texas Tech > Texas +6
    OU > Texas Tech +44

    So basically OU is rewarded for blowing out Texas Tech, who barely beat Texas (in the last play of regulation), and it's almost an after thought that Texas beat OU by 10 (since that happened back on 10/11...)

    I just don't get it.

    Essentially, Texas Tech becomes worthless in the equation, and that's why OU is ranked ahead of Texas?

    The lesson is, don't lose late in the season.
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    Re: 2008-09 BCS Discussion/Projections

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    If you can figure out a way to weigh all this kinda stuff and make some list of factors and their importance then more power to you. I don't think it's possible under the system we have now -- because apparently there are computers out there that think Utah is a better team than Florida, which is just unfathomable.
    I think computers in general get a bad rap because of a misunderstanding of what they do. No computer tells you who is a better team, they tell you what team has proven more.

    For instance, if you took this Alabama team and said they played the bottom 12 teams in division 1-A, they'd still be as good of a team as they are now, but they wouldn't have proven anything.

    So the computers don't necessarily think Utah is better than Florida, they've just proven more. That's at least an argument you can start from.

    On the other hand, voters for the Harris and Coaches' polls get themselves in trouble with the mental gymnastics of who has "proven more" that's why you get the inconsistency in logic from one year or one week to the next.

    The BCS as a whole would work a lot better if the pollsters stuck to trying to figure out who is the best team, while the computers decided who most deserves to make the BCS title game.
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    Re: 2008-09 BCS Discussion/Projections

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Texas > OU +10
    Texas Tech > Texas +6
    OU > Texas Tech +44

    So basically OU is rewarded for blowing out Texas Tech, who barely beat Texas (in the last play of regulation), and it's almost an after thought that Texas beat OU by 10 (since that happened back on 10/11...)

    I just don't get it.

    Essentially, Texas Tech becomes worthless in the equation, and that's why OU is ranked ahead of Texas?
    I think it's a bigger flaw in logic to say, Texas Tech is out of the discussion, so let's focus only on the head-to-head between OU and Texas. It's a three-way tie, not a two-way tie, and they all have identical records, they lost to each other in round-robin fashion. So you have to go somewhere other than head-to-heads to figure it out... but if you did choose a head-to-head to consider, "biggest butt-whooping administered" isn't a bad place to start.
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  13. #57
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    Re: 2008-09 BCS Discussion/Projections

    Mike Leach thinks ties should be broken by the respective programs' graduation rates.

    http://www.doubleazone.com/2008/12/t...s_oklahoma.php
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    Re: 2008-09 BCS Discussion/Projections

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    I think it's a bigger flaw in logic to say, Texas Tech is out of the discussion, so let's focus only on the head-to-head between OU and Texas. It's a three-way tie, not a two-way tie, and they all have identical records, they lost to each other in round-robin fashion. So you have to go somewhere other than head-to-heads to figure it out... but if you did choose a head-to-head to consider, "biggest butt-whooping administered" isn't a bad place to start.
    Their current tie-breaker is the BCS standing, so that's why Oklahoma faces Missouri for the Big 12 Champ.

    I don't think Texas Tech should be out of it, but apparently them getting taken behind the woodshed by Oklahoma (at Oklahoma, let's not forget that) makes them beating Texas in Lubbock moot.

    The only logic I can see is that Texas beat Oklahoma at a neutral site, Texas lost at Texas Tech, while Oklahoma beat Texas Tech (badly) in Norman, OK.... which essentially now creates the scenario that Oklahoma has a quality loss to Texas, while Texas' loss to Texas Tech is not a quality loss due to the fact that Oklahoma spanked Texas Tech.

    Do I agree with it? Absolutely not, but that's the only way that I see how Texas Tech is easily dismissed from this discussion, and Oklahoma pole vaults Texas only due to the fact they lost earlier in the season to Texas than Texas Tech lost to Oklahoma.

    Like Chip said, losing late in the season matters.

    ... and apparently in this case, Texas beating Oklahoma doesn't matter, b/c it was in the beginning of October...


    I think the biggest travesity is the Big 12's use of BCS standings as a tie-breaker.

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    Re: 2008-09 BCS Discussion/Projections

    It is the fifth tier tie breaker. It just so happens that three way ties create real headaches.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  16. #60
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: 2008-09 BCS Discussion/Projections

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    It is the fifth tier tie breaker. It just so happens that three way ties create real headaches.
    http://www.big12sports.com/ViewArtic...B_OEM_ID=10410

    Tiebreaker Procedures
    Release: 07/31/2008
    by Big12Sports.com

    Divisional Champion: The (eligible) team with the best winning-percentage of all divisional members in its eight conference games is declared the divisional champion and representative to the Dr Pepper Big 12 Conference Football Championship Game. A team ineligible under NCAA or Big 12 rules for postseason (bowl) competition shall not compete in the Championship Game.

    Divisional Tiebreakers: The following procedure will determine the representative from each division in the event of a tie:

    1. If two teams are tied, the winner of the game between the two tied teams shall be the representative
    2. If three or more teams are tied, steps 1 through 7 will be followed until a determination is made. If only two teams remain tied after any step, the winner of the game between the two tied teams shall be the representative:

    1. The records of the three teams will be compared against each other
    2. The records of the three teams will be compared within their division
    3. The records of the three teams will be compared against the next highest placed teams in their division in order of fi nish (4, 5 and 6)
    4. The records of the three teams will be compared against all common conference opponents;
    5. The highest ranked team in the fi rst Bowl Championship Series Poll following the completion of Big 12 regular season conference play shall be the representative
    6. The team with the best overall winning percentage [excluding exempted games] shall be the representative
    7. The representative will be chosen by draw.

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