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Thread: Hawaii Winter League top 20 prospects

  1. #16
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Hawaii Winter League top 20 prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    On a separate note, the Reds' indecision on where to play Frazier should be a neon sign to other organizations to make him the prospect they insist on in any majors for minors swap. Are the Reds really going to make the kid they can't slot into a settled position a deal breaker? I suspect not.
    Thats the reason I think Frazier is going to have a strong MLB career somewhere else. His positions are likely going to be filled by others (be it at 1B with Votto or Alonso, LF with a FA or Votto who moves for Alonso even if you think its dumb M2 its likely going to happen, or at 3B with either Francisco or Soto).

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  3. #17
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Hawaii Winter League top 20 prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Thats the reason I think Frazier is going to have a strong MLB career somewhere else. His positions are likely going to be filled by others (be it at 1B with Votto or Alonso, LF with a FA or Votto who moves for Alonso even if you think its dumb M2 its likely going to happen, or at 3B with either Francisco or Soto).
    If they give Frazier's job to Francisco they need slapped upside their head. Seriously Francisco's gaudy #'s don't make him the equivalent in any way to Frazier except for perhaps power alone. And Soto is a year or 2 behind Frazier.
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  4. #18
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Hawaii Winter League top 20 prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    If they give Frazier's job to Francisco they need slapped upside their head. Seriously Francisco's gaudy #'s don't make him the equivalent in any way to Frazier except for perhaps power alone. And Soto is a year or 2 behind Frazier.
    Well thats also making the assumption that Francisco doesn't improve his plate discipline, which he certainly could. As for Soto being behind him, yeah, he is on the time table, but he is also a better prospect than Frazier is. If that means the Reds keep EE at 3B an extra year because they trade Frazier for something while waiting for Soto to get some AAA experience in 2010, then its not a huge deal.

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    Re: Hawaii Winter League top 20 prospects

    Are Frazier and Alonso going to get any PT in spring training this year?
    @#$% my @#$%^*&

  6. #20
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Hawaii Winter League top 20 prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by schmidty622 View Post
    Are Frazier and Alonso going to get any PT in spring training this year?
    Alonso probably will since he's on the 40-man roster. As for Frazier, he's a first round draft pick, and they tend to get special treatment. I could see him getting 10 ABs or so.

  7. #21
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Hawaii Winter League top 20 prospects

    I don't really see either guy getting a ton of AB's because they aren't really competing for spots on the team.

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    Re: Hawaii Winter League top 20 prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    On a separate note, the Reds' indecision on where to play Frazier should be a neon sign to other organizations to make him the prospect they insist on in any majors for minors swap. Are the Reds really going to make the kid they can't slot into a settled position a deal breaker? I suspect not.
    I really hope Walt has more sense than this. Unless the return is a sure thing.

  9. #23
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Hawaii Winter League top 20 prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    I really hope Walt has more sense than this. Unless the return is a sure thing.
    Actually I think now is the time to make a deal that brings a player(s) - the value for Frazier, Francisco and Soto is at a mutal high - I'd be trying to make a deal that swapped one for a C or SS prospect in similar regard in another organization as the back end of a major deal. Actually this kind of top minor leaguer for top minor leaguer deal is rare but I don't know why. If a team has several good prospects at one spot why not swap one to another team who has a glut somewhere else? Texas with their catchers and the Reds with third basemen comes to mind but I'm sure there are teams with multiple good SS prospects etc.

  10. #24
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Hawaii Winter League top 20 prospects

    Two very good questions by that Mike from Boston guy. Hmm, wonder who that could be?

    Q: Mike from Boston asks:
    How does Todd Frazier profile as a 3B? Good defender, bad, mediocre? And how long will the Reds wait to commit to a position with him? Experience at the position he's likely to play in the majors would seem a pressing concern if he hits in the upper minors. It would be a shame if the club delayed the arrival of his bat because it had failed to sort out his glove.

    A: John Manuel: Frazier is such a tough guy to get a read on. He's not conventional offensively or defensively, but I had a couple of solid reports on his defense at shortstop in HWB, not to mention third and left field. I agree in that it would be to Frazier's benefit if Cincy gave him one position and stuck with it. I don't think he's going to be a utility guy; it sounds like he has the bat to be an everyday guy. All that said, I bet he winds up in the OF because it's easier. The Reds could use a righty bat to go with B. Phillips, because otherwise they are quite lefthanded with Bruce, Votto and sooner than later Alonso.

    Q: Mike from Boston asks:
    Two questions on Yonder Alonso: 1) How did his defense look in Hawaii? 2) Does anyone think he could be put on the Will Clark/John Olerud Express straight to the majors?

    A: John Manuel: Good reviews on the defense, should be at least adequate if not average over there. He has the approach and short, repeatable stroke that he could move that quickly, though as I wrote in the scouting report, he's going to have to learn to hit a lot of soft stuff, a lot of stuff that spins, because late in games, he's rarely going to see a righthanded pitcher challenging him with heat.

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    Re: Hawaii Winter League top 20 prospects

    Two mentions of Frazier being a solid SS with the leather from BA. That makes him the top prospect in the Red pipeline, if true.

    (Position scarcity trumps pure numbers.)

    It will likely never happen, but Frazier at short, with plus defenders around him makes me giggle like a schoolgirl.
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  12. #26
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Hawaii Winter League top 20 prospects

    Q: Kyle from Middletown asks:
    If Todd Frazier's hands are set up too high, why don't the Reds just lower them? Do you personally believe that his swing can work in the major leagues?

    A: John Manuel: Because he succeeds with his present approach and hasn't gotten eaten up by being pitched in on his hands, at least not yet. I think there are plenty of exceptions in the major leagues, a lot of guys who don't do things in a textbook fashion who make it work. Until scouts tell me he's getting eaten up inside, I have no reason to doubt him.

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  13. #27
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    Re: Hawaii Winter League top 20 prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    The organization owes itself a long trial for Frazier at 3B.
    Completely agree. If he can play 3B, that solves a ton of problems for the Reds' future lineups. And considering Frazier is likely two years away at the most, I'd like to find out sooner rather than later.

  14. #28
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    Re: Hawaii Winter League top 20 prospects

    this reds team is a couple years away from having one monstrous line up. Maybe it wont pan out but lord it is absolutely crazy to think of Bruce, Alonso, Frazier, and Votto + some other guys if they continue to produce.

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    Re: Hawaii Winter League top 20 prospects

    The local radio broadcast team for HWL seems to think that this last class of prospects is the best to come through in Hawaii. They seem to think that many of these guys will get to the bigs soon and they are quite a few that will be very good players for a long time.

  16. #30
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    Re: Hawaii Winter League top 20 prospects

    I saw a lot of Frazier this season and while I am a huge fan of Frazier as a prospect, any talk of him staying at shortstop should be shut down. He simply lacks the initial quickness or explosiveness to play the position. Some tried to compare him defensively to Ripken at shortstop, but I don't see it. Slow choppers or any ball where he needs an explosive first and second step to get to are going to be base hits rather than ground outs.

    On the other hand, he has good hands and a decent arm, so I am not sure why anyone would doubt his ability to play third base. Moving him to the outfield would be a waste of an infielder's hands. I think he will play third base. The important thing with Frazier is to put him at a position and let him stay there and learn to play the position. The way they handled him last year, couple of days at one spot, then somewhere else, was insane for a player of his ability. It was almost a wasted year defensively.

    Problem with third base, of course, is you also have Francisco set to play at Carolina. With Jockety saying over and over that he prefers the trade market rather than the free agent market this winter, I would not be a bit surprised to see someone like Francisco dealt. He has value, no doubt about that. He is a second tier prospect in the system, just behind the top group of five or six. You are going to have to give up a couple of players in that tier to get a guy who will make an impact at the big league level, as they say they want to do.

    Talking with some players who were in instructional league and got their first good looks at Alonso, I am hearing that the things that stood out were his confidence, tremendous plate discipline (will draw a lot of walks at every level), and the fact that he is well-below average defensively at first base at this point. No chance Alonso moves off first base.


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