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View Poll Results: Who has the brightest future as a major league 3B?

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  • Edwin Encarnacion

    28 26.92%
  • Juan Francisco

    12 11.54%
  • Todd Frazier

    30 28.85%
  • Neftali Soto

    34 32.69%
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Thread: Who's got the best major league future at 3B?

  1. #31
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who's got the best major league future at 3B?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post


    How can you not take the guy already playing 3B in MLB over A-ballers!?
    Because it says best future as a MLBer at 3B and I think Edwins days at 3B are pretty much numbered among a few other things.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Who's got the best major league future at 3B?

    One thing about Frazier that, IMO, argues for him at 3B is head for the game. He hasn't been playing SS because of his defensive tools, but his game sense has allowed him to stick there. One of the things that a lot of good defensive 3Bs seem to share is that they play above their tools.
    Frazier's instincts are an important ingredient in my not worrying about him having to settle in at 3rd down the road, if that looks like the best place to put him.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  4. #33
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Who's got the best major league future at 3B?

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Disagree. Build the value of both Frazier and Francisco, not just one of them. That's common sense.
    So you'd have the guy you expect to be your future 3B pretty much never play 3B? Madness.

    And no one is like Pete Rose. Well, Honus Wagner and King Kelly were, but that only reinforces how rare those types are. They're extreme outliers. When mortal ballplayers go to an OF corner they don't go back to a more premium IF position, especially a position where they've gotten almost no playing time, even back into their college days.

    You can pretend that's not the case, but that's just you pretending.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  5. #34
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    Re: Who's got the best major league future at 3B?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I devalue Francisco because I see Tony Batista as his ceiling and I don't bungle up anyone else's progress through the system for a Tony Batista wannabe. That's just common sense.

    And Frazier probably won't be seeing multiple positions in 2009. Figure Alonso, Turner, Valaika and Francisco as the starting IF in Carolina. In the OF you might have Heisey and Stubbs. That sticks Frazier in LF via path of least resistance thinking, and with very little shifting around.

    So now you've got the guy playing at the right-hand side of the defensive spectrum and taking little-to-no reps in the IF as he approaches the majors. That's called lock-in.

    And, yes, those other players did move off of 3B (note that they didn't move to it from 1B or an OF corner). They couldn't hack the position so they slid down the defensive spectrum to less challenging positions. Meanwhile the Reds are looking at Frazier taking the quantum leap from the left-hand side of the spectrum (SS) to the right-hand side (LF) without ever giving him time to settle into a higher defensive value position like 3B or 2B. This isn't some crazy, New Age philosophy I'm pushing here. This is old as the hills. Guys who move off SS go to 2B, 3B or CF. The Reds are ignoring something statheads and seamheads alike agree upon.

    So if Encarnacion finally makes the GM's head explode with his erratic play on the hot corner and Francisco continues to swing at everything and Soto experiences a few hiccups (all fairly reasonable possibilities), who's your 3B?

    It won't be Todd Frazier if the team sticks him in LF and never lets him get his reps at 3B.

    Anyway, my reason for posting this poll isn't nearly as nefarious as you seem to think. I'm actually curious as to who RedsZone thinks the best 3B will be and I'd think it should go without saying that whomever you think is the pick, then that guy ought to be playing 3B in 2009.
    I've actually wondered for some time if Frazier or Valaika could play CF. I see no reason why they couldn't, seeing as how they both had the athleticism to play SS at the high college/low minors levels. Valaika now seems primed to stick at SS, but the two position trials I wouldn't mind seeing would be Frazier at CF and Francisco at C. I could see Frazier as a Jim Edmonds in his prime type player with a weaker glove (and less arrogance.)

    How about a 2010 lineup of

    Escobar/Furcal (or Valaika worst-case) SS
    Votto LF
    Bruce RF
    Soto 3B
    Alonso 1B
    Frazier/Stubbs CF
    Phillips 2B
    Francisco C
    Go BLUE!!!

  6. #35
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    Re: Who's got the best major league future at 3B?

    Who did you pick M2 and why?

  7. #36
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    Re: Who's got the best major league future at 3B?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redman15 View Post
    I went with Francisco. The ball just jumps off this kids bat. He could be the Reds next 40 homer guy now that Dunn's gone.
    I went with Francisco just b/c I think his bat will trump his defensive shortcomings @ 3B.

    I'm not sure all the others have the bat to outweigh their defense.

  8. #37
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Who's got the best major league future at 3B?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Yep. Hunter Pence's swing wasn't supposed to work in the majors either.... as far as his hitting itself goes, he seems to be doing just fine.
    Great rookie year, but he got exposed big time last year.

    Fangraphs had an interesting take on the subject: http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/ind...takes-a-slide/

    I went with Soto. What's he's doing at his age is quite impressive. I still think EE has Aramis Ramirez potential, but only if he stops try to pull everything -- and I'm not convinced he'll make the change. Fransisco is easily the biggest wildcard in the bunch, but a 6:1 K:BB ratio just isn't going to work; he needs to take a big step next year. All that said, if you had to put 20 bucks on any of these guys being a multiple All-Star guy, Frazier may well be your bet -- the question is whether it's at 3B.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  9. #38
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who's got the best major league future at 3B?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Great rookie year, but he got exposed big time last year.

    Fangraphs had an interesting take on the subject: http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/ind...takes-a-slide/
    His hitting wasn't bad, his walks were. .270 average, 25 HR, .466 slugging.

  10. #39
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    Re: Who's got the best major league future at 3B?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    I went with Francisco just b/c I think his bat will trump his defensive shortcomings @ 3B.

    I'm not sure all the others have the bat to outweigh their defense.
    Neither Frazier nor Soto project as the defensive liabilities that you make them out to be IMO. They'll never win a Gold Glove but they won't kill you over there either. We've already read that Frazier played well at 3B during the HWL. On Soto, Kevin Goldstein says he has good hands at third base and a cannon for an arm. He did say he'll need to improve his range to his left, though.
    Last edited by OnBaseMachine; 12-01-2008 at 09:17 PM.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  11. #40
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    Re: Who's got the best major league future at 3B?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Who did you pick M2 and why?
    Frazier, he rolled out of the womb playing baseball.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  12. #41
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Who's got the best major league future at 3B?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Frazier, he rolled out of the womb playing baseball.
    I love that answer and its why I see Frazier being an impact player somewhere for someone. Some guys just look to be born to play the game.

  13. #42
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    Re: Who's got the best major league future at 3B?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Frazier, he rolled out of the womb playing baseball.
    I've gone on record as saying Frazier reminds me of a Kevin Youkilis type of player. He's a guy that does about everything well and has great baseball instincts. Like Youkilis, he's versatile, has a good eye at the plate, and also possesses above average power. He's the type of player you want on your team. I've liked Frazier since the day he was drafted... he's a keeper IMO.
    Last edited by OnBaseMachine; 12-01-2008 at 09:57 PM.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  14. #43
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    Re: Who's got the best major league future at 3B?

    I haven't seen him play, but for some reason he makes me think of Matt Williams.

  15. #44
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    Re: Who's got the best major league future at 3B?

    Edwin because 95% of his problems are mental and since he is maturing I believe he can fix those. I also do not see him as a black hole at 3B as some people make him out to be. He has the athletic ability to make the plays and with more practice he will.
    "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

  16. #45
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    Re: Who's got the best major league future at 3B?

    I picked Francisco because he profiles so clearly as a 3B. Frazier and Soto are far superior overall prospects, but I worry about what the Reds will do with their positional development. I have so little faith in the Reds developmental program's ability to match their talent to the correct position. EE has all the tools to be a good 3B and yet somehow he doesn't put it together. RF would be good for him, but if Bruce is there, why not leave him at 3b until we find a better alternative.
    I would start Frazier at AA in LF. If this happens he will be in cincinnati in mid/late 2010. Soto is good at 3b for a while.
    What the Reds will do remains to be seen.


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