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Thread: Rays shopping Bartlett?

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    Rays shopping Bartlett?

    What would you be willing to give up for him? I'm not that familiar with his stats. I do know that he was vote the team MVP last season.
    A trade for him would give us a young SS. What would it cost? How good is he?

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    Re: Rays shopping Bartlett?

    Who says they are shopping him?

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    Re: Rays shopping Bartlett?

    Here is the link to the article

    http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/...90096/12037280


    If he is available, I would jump at the chance to acquire him, he would be at the top of my list of SS to acquire. However, the price is the issue. He really is not worth a top 10 prospect, but I would trade two top 20 prospects for him is a second.

    He can't hit much, but he is amazing in the field, a captain of the infield, like Larkin used to be. He makes everyone around him better. The Rays pitchers loved him. In rough estimate, his defense is worth around 50 runs compared to an average SS, and around 75 compared to Kepp.

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    Re: Rays shopping Bartlett?

    No thanks on Bartlett. His OPS+ has been steadily declining the past three years. He's below average offensively (-2 BRAA) and defensively (-6 FRAA). Also, he's already 29, which is a bit older than I'd like to go if we're going to acquire a shortstop.

    If we're going to look at Rays shortstops, I might took a chance on Reid Brignac at AAA. He posted a .299 OBP last year and he strikes out way too much, but at his age the potential is still there. I obviously don't know how Tampa feels about him, but if they've soured on him at all, and the price isn't extravagant, it might be worth an inquiry.

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    Re: Rays shopping Bartlett?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atlas Jobinson View Post
    No thanks on Bartlett. His OPS+ has been steadily declining the past three years. He's below average offensively (-2 BRAA) and defensively (-6 FRAA). Also, he's already 29, which is a bit older than I'd like to go if we're going to acquire a shortstop.

    If we're going to look at Rays shortstops, I might took a chance on Reid Brignac at AAA. He posted a .299 OBP last year and he strikes out way too much, but at his age the potential is still there. I obviously don't know how Tampa feels about him, but if they've soured on him at all, and the price isn't extravagant, it might be worth an inquiry.
    Brignac is the reason that Bartlett is available. That and the SS they drafted in June (Beckham?).

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    Re: Rays shopping Bartlett?

    Quote Originally Posted by stripedwarrior View Post
    Brignac is the reason that Bartlett is available. That and the SS they drafted in June (Beckham?).
    I realize this, but given everything that you hear about Bartlett being the team leader and such, and with Beckham waiting in the wings, maybe Brignac has become expendable. But that's just speculation (and maybe wishful thinking) on my part.

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    Re: Rays shopping Bartlett?

    Bottom line is he comparable, or better than Janish? I believe that he would be better. I know BA isn't everything, but he did bat over .280 last season, and doesn't strike out a ton (69 in 454 AB). Probably a useful #8 hole hitter. On the plus side he did bat .429 against the Cubs last year.

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    Re: Rays shopping Bartlett?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Here is the link to the article

    http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/...90096/12037280


    If he is available, I would jump at the chance to acquire him, he would be at the top of my list of SS to acquire. However, the price is the issue. He really is not worth a top 10 prospect, but I would trade two top 20 prospects for him is a second.

    He can't hit much, but he is amazing in the field, a captain of the infield, like Larkin used to be. He makes everyone around him better. The Rays pitchers loved him. In rough estimate, his defense is worth around 50 runs compared to an average SS, and around 75 compared to Kepp.
    Where are you getting those numbers from? according to the fielding bible he was +30 plays (+22.5 runs) over the average shortstop from 2006-2008 which is obviously three years. He is much better than kepp and an above average SS but no where even close to 50 or 70 runs...That being said, he would be a good addition because his defense would improve the infield defense but it depends on how much the Rays want in return for him.
    Baseball is not necessarily an obsessive-compulsive disorder, like washing your hands 100 times a day, but it's beginning to seem that way. We're reaching the point where you can be a truly dedicated, state-of-the-art fan or you can have a life. Take your pick. ~Thomas Boswell

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    Re: Rays shopping Bartlett?

    Quote Originally Posted by stripedwarrior View Post
    Bottom line is he comparable, or better than Janish? I believe that he would be better. I know BA isn't everything, but he did bat over .280 last season, and doesn't strike out a ton (69 in 454 AB). Probably a useful #8 hole hitter. On the plus side he did bat .429 against the Cubs last year.

    I would put him way ahead of Janish. Barrtlet isnt going to be winning any batting titles but a lot more at the plate than Janish as well as a solid defender (Janish is as well)

    I wouldn't mind for Bartlett to be a Red but I dont think he is a must to add...especially if we are going to have to give something up.

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    Re: Rays shopping Bartlett?

    Barrtlet as the Rays MVP was the dumbest thing ever!!! but I digress...

    I would love to have him if Dusty would hit him 8th. His bat is worthless, but he can pick it with the best of them. The problem is Dusty doesn't use players according to their strength's, he uses them according to their position. I'll pass on Barrtlet if it requires giving up anything more than a C+/B- prospect.

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    Re: Rays shopping Bartlett?

    Dude this team doesn't need Bartlett... Needs a Furcal

    LEAD OFF HITTER and On BASE Machine....

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    Re: Rays shopping Bartlett?

    I would love to have him,last monty jockerty said he would like a player 1 to 3 years in majors,or at least not arbritration eligable.He fits this i belive.For as furcal,i am still weary of his back,don't need another alex gonzalez.

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    Re: Rays shopping Bartlett?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emin3mShady07 View Post
    Where are you getting those numbers from? according to the fielding bible he was +30 plays (+22.5 runs) over the average shortstop from 2006-2008 which is obviously three years. He is much better than kepp and an above average SS but no where even close to 50 or 70 runs...That being said, he would be a good addition because his defense would improve the infield defense but it depends on how much the Rays want in return for him.
    He can't hit much, but he is amazing in the field, a captain of the infield, like Larkin used to be. He makes everyone around him better. The Rays pitchers loved him. In rough estimate, his defense is worth around 50 runs compared to an average SS, and around 75 compared to Kepp.
    That is where I got my very rough estimate. The fielding bible only takes into account the actual runs or plays that he is responsible for. He will make Phillips better, he will make EE better, he will make Votto better. He will make the pitching staff better.

    I already addressed this in an earlier post so here is my argument again. I know I am in the minority on this, but I really think that the effects of defense go way beyond just the plays that each fielder makes.

    My whole point is that is can not be quantified with stats, because the effects are too complex. But here goes my attempt at it.

    SS is the most important defensive position on the field. It's importance can not be measured by any fielding stat, or any compilation of stats. Having a solid fielding SS results not just in less errors, or more plays made, it leads to less pitches being thrown by the pitchers.

    An error or a missed play means that the pitcher needs to pitch to at least one more batter, usually more. For every missed play or error, I think it is safe to assume that a pitcher will throw at least 10 more pitches. If a fielder gets to one less ball every other game, that means that a starting pitcher will throw an additional 150 pitches in a season, or another start and a half. Or to go another route, the pitcher throws 10 more pitches in that game, which means that he pitches one less inning than he should. This means extra work for the bullpen, plus it means you have your best pitcher out for one less inning. The extra work for your bullpen means that you will have less options throughout the season to use the right matchups, because guys are tired.
    Like I said, it is very complex math to figure out exactly how many runs that means over the course of a year, but it clearly is significant.


    "letting pitchers have confidence in allowing the batter to make contact"

    This is not the same as "pitchers will feel more comfortable with a slick-fielding SS". It is not about their feelings, it is about how they approach hitters.
    If they don't have faith in their defense, pitchers will try to strike everyone out. First, that makes them predictable, and thus easier to hit. Second, it adds heavily to their pitch count. This is much more than the 10 pitches because of a bad play. This is for every hitter. I would conservatively say that this approach adds at least 1 pitch per batter or around 20-25 pitches to a pitchers pitch count. So it has the same effect as a bad play, but at least twice as much.


    "less AB's for the opposing lineup which means that the best hitters hit less often"

    This is an really important one. This is exactly why walks are so important. Giving Albert Pujols one more at bat each game can be deadly. Preventing that can be the difference in games. Again, no way to know the actual #'s of runs this costs over the course of the season, but it is significant.

    And here is one more I did not list. Turning a double play.

    Think of how important double plays are in games. They are rally killers. The make it extremely difficult for teams to score in that inning. If a team does not get a double play, at best it continues the inning and leaves at least one man on base, at worse, there are no outs made and at least two runners are on base. In addition to all things I said above, this directly gives the other team a good scoring opportunity when there should be none or the end of the inning. Let's just say it happens once a week. That would mean 27 more chances for the other team to have a big inning throughout the year.

    Bad defense leads to all these things, plus the direct runs that the player missing the play leads to. I am not going to give a number because there is no way to know what that number would be, but hopefully you can see that it is significant enough to make sure that you have a SS that can make all the plays he should. The one thing I will say is that all these side effects probably lead to more runs than the actual direct effect of not making the play.
    So that is why it is just a rough estimate. Most of those effects are not included in the Fielding Bible, which I have a lot of faith in. I think it does do a great job of isolating how many plays each fielder makes in comparison to the league. However, that number does not tell the whole story, nor does the now accepted view that a missed play costs a team .8 of a run according to Tango. I think a missed play costs a team .8 of a run directly and probably more indirectly. But that is just my opinion and I have no stats to back it up, just experience.


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