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Thread: Reds/Tigers, hot after Laird

  1. #46
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    Re: Reds/Tigers, hot after Laird

    Have patience with Thompson, ChatterRed. He's made a remarkable recovery from a devastating injury. His injury last year was from overuse, not from anything he did to his body or arm. He just needed to be shut down. He'd pitched too many innings compared to how many he'd pitched each of the last 4 seasons. He'll be good to go for 175-190 innings this year. I really expect 8 wins from him this year at the big league level.

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  3. #47
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Reds/Tigers, hot after Laird

    Quote Originally Posted by Emin3mShady07 View Post
    Very true and I do realize that it was indeed a bit of an overstatement. The chapter, and I only point it out because you mention his name, was "Is Mike Matheny a catching Genius?" but anyways, my point is that even if Gerald Laird called a "great" game, it is more on the pitchers to execute than it is for Laird to call the correct pitch. I'm just stressing that it would be foolish to think that a guy like Laird could turn aroung pitchers performances just by his pitch selection. I mean last year the Rangers ERA when he was catching was 5.21 http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstat...lastName=laird but I would attribute that to the Rangers really crappy pitching staff as opposed to Laird's pitch selection.
    I actually agree with you that calling a game is way overrated. Basically, it's high and away, low and outside and change speeds. And as you stated, most importantly the pitcher is the one with the ball, so it really is always his game to call and execute.

    Still, I think there is a lot more to handling pitchers than just callilng the game. A good catcher will know how to keep his pitcher focused, calm him down when he gets agitated, reve him up when he gets down. But most importantly, a good catcher gains the pitchers confidence, both by being on the same wavelength has him and by being able to block every pitch in the dirt. The first part lets the pitcher concentrate on just executing and the second lets the pitcher throw any pitch at anytime, even with runners on base. All of that can really help a pitcher, especially a young pitcher.

    That said, I have no idea if Laird is any good at any of that, although you showed he wasn't special at blocking pitches. And anyway, I think Hanigan showed he is good enough that the Reds should not be wasting resources on picking up another catcher. Any decent back up should be fine.

  4. #48
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    Re: Reds/Tigers, hot after Laird

    Pitchers are quirky individuals....space-cadets. They need handling. More former catchers become managers because of their abilities to handle players. Kevin Costner's portrayal of the Catcher/Pitcher relationship isn't far from the truth.

  5. #49
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Reds/Tigers, hot after Laird

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Pitchers are quirky individuals....space-cadets. They need handling. More former catchers become managers because of their abilities to handle players. Kevin Costner's portrayal of the Catcher/Pitcher relationship isn't far from the truth.
    My favorite story about how a catcher can handle a pitcher is about some pitcher on the Reds staff when Johnny Bench was the catcher. The pitcher kept wanting to throw his fastball, and Bench kept telling him that it wasn't good that day. Bench finally gave in and callled a fastball, then to prove his point, dropped his glove and caught it with his bare hands. After that the pitcher listened to Bench the rest of the game.

  6. #50
    Member Emin3mShady07's Avatar
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    Re: Reds/Tigers, hot after Laird

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    Why trade anyone when you can sign C Ivan Rodrigez to a 1 year deal and not give up 1 prospect...

    Why is Walt obsessed with a Cathcer with 1-3 years of service time... Besides the fact that he has control of the player for atleast 3 more years...
    The why trade anyone is a good point in the above, but Ivan Rodriguez is horrible, potentially even worse than Gerald Laird. I-Rod's high OPS since he quit juicing is in the .750s and he is trending downward very, very badly http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstat...Name=Rodriguez I would stay away from him at all costs.
    Baseball is not necessarily an obsessive-compulsive disorder, like washing your hands 100 times a day, but it's beginning to seem that way. We're reaching the point where you can be a truly dedicated, state-of-the-art fan or you can have a life. Take your pick. ~Thomas Boswell

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  7. #51
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    Re: Reds/Tigers, hot after Laird

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    While I disagree with you about the value of Laird vs. Roenicke/Thomspon/Bailey, ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Not you personally about those players, but that's what the thread's about in general.
    not to belabor the point kingspoint, and maybe it's just me, but i thought the thread was simply about the reds possible interest in laird. that's all. obviously, the value of roenicke, thompson, bailey (or any other players) vs laird plays into the equation but, as i said before, since i hadn't even mentioned any of those players except for laird it seems like that was just a poor choice of words. anyway, i'm done with that so i'll get back to the discussion about catchers ...

    i do agree with the point/sentiment made by kingspoint and thenext44. pitchers are drafted for the arms that are attached to them. not for their brains. even a pitcher known for his smarts like maddux relied on his catchers. alot depends on the pitchers ability to pitch well and they should be open to any help be it from a catcher, coach, an infielder, a former player, whoever. alot of pitchers tend to think at times they can just throw a fastball up there but that doesn't make you a pitcher. the catcher will know better than anyone how a pitcher is that day. a catchers #1 responsibility is threefold: to call a good game, to handle the throws/runners well, and to help the pitcher focus so he can pitch well. offense is secondary.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

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    Re: Reds/Tigers, hot after Laird

    I think Hank Blalock should be part of the Laird trade. I honestly wouldn't trade for Laird alone. Put Blalock at 3rd move EE to left and call it a day.

  9. #53
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    Re: Reds/Tigers, hot after Laird

    I really don't want to give up much for Laird, who is essentially a backup catcher.

    If the market drops for Pudge, I'd be just as happy signing him to a 2 year deal and finding out along the way how Hanigan produces.

    I think this team needs to look at signing players for 2 years in free agency and trying to leave our farm system intact. We very well could develop the right players to fill our needs in a couple of years. I hate to see ownership go overboard, when we're on the verge.

    It's like one quote I read about whichever team gets Peavy will be looking at a long rebuilding process (because they'll have to sell the farm system to get him).

    I don't want the Reds to do that.
    Who's on first?

  10. #54
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    Re: Reds/Tigers, hot after Laird

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    My favorite story about how a catcher can handle a pitcher is about some pitcher on the Reds staff when Johnny Bench was the catcher. The pitcher kept wanting to throw his fastball, and Bench kept telling him that it wasn't good that day. Bench finally gave in and callled a fastball, then to prove his point, dropped his glove and caught it with his bare hands. After that the pitcher listened to Bench the rest of the game.
    Great story.

  11. #55
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    Re: Reds/Tigers, hot after Laird

    What about Kurt Suzuski from the A's there always lookin for young pitchers. We could give them possibly Bailey and Janish since there after Furcal at short. Who knows though Suzuski might not pan out but he seems like he a good young player that hasn't hit his peak, just thrown that out there.

  12. #56
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    Re: Reds/Tigers, hot after Laird

    Quote Originally Posted by ChatterRed View Post
    ... I think this team needs to look at signing players for 2 years in free agency and trying to leave our farm system intact. We very well could develop the right players to fill our needs in a couple of years. I hate to see ownership go overboard, when we're on the verge.

    It's like one quote I read about whichever team gets Peavy will be looking at a long rebuilding process (because they'll have to sell the farm system to get him).

    I don't want the Reds to do that.
    for the most part i agree. but if had to make a trade i'd make hermida an exception for the reasons i posted in the other thread.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  13. #57
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    Re: Reds/Tigers, hot after Laird

    http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/...2008&fext=.jsp

    Well this thread seems to be near an end as the Tigers got Laird instead for two pitching prospects.
    Jack Eliot: I'm a World Series MVP!
    Skip: That was four years ago, Jack. Last season, you hit .235.
    Jack Eliot: LAST SEASON, I led this team in ninth-inning doubles in the month of August!

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    Re: Reds/Tigers, hot after Laird

    Quote Originally Posted by tommycash View Post
    http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/...2008&fext=.jsp

    Well this thread seems to be near an end as the Tigers got Laird instead for two pitching prospects.
    darn, so we still have Bailey in the system ?

  15. #59
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    Re: Reds/Tigers, hot after Laird

    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaFan View Post
    darn, so we still have Bailey in the system ?
    Maybe not if you believe the Dye trade is going through. I think Dye is a better trade off for Bailey than Laird for next year's team.
    Jack Eliot: I'm a World Series MVP!
    Skip: That was four years ago, Jack. Last season, you hit .235.
    Jack Eliot: LAST SEASON, I led this team in ninth-inning doubles in the month of August!

    ---Mr. Baseball 1992

  16. #60
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    Re: Reds/Tigers, hot after Laird

    Per MLBtraderumors.com

    The Red Sox have talked to the Indians about Kelly Shoppach; the Reds like him as well. The Indians would want a big league second baseman, third baseman, or closer back for Shoppach. The Indians have not entertained offers for Victor Martinez.


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