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Thread: The Great Intangibles Thread

  1. #1
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    The Great Intangibles Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by deltachi8 View Post
    How about hiring smart people to find smart, or at least not so dumb players? Perhaps Walt is the start of that...
    Smart thing they did was part ways with Griffey and Dunn. If there was one constant over the last eight years of losing, it was those two. I know you can't blame them for all the team's woes but you have to question their commitment to winning.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

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    Something clever pahster's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty View Post
    Smart thing they did was part ways with Griffey and Dunn. If there was one constant over the last eight years of losing, it was those two. I know you can't blame them for all the team's woes but you have to question their commitment to winning.
    That's just silly.

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    smells of rich mahogany deltachi8's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty View Post
    Smart thing they did was part ways with Griffey and Dunn. If there was one constant over the last eight years of losing, it was those two. I know you can't blame them for all the team's woes but you have to question their commitment to winning.
    Seriously?

    Both had problems with their game at times. Jr got old and broke down, Adam has some worts in his game that have been debated endlessly here. I can think of a bunch of dumb things this team has done, and many the players have done as well, but I never had the impression that either Dunn or Griffey lacked of a "winning attitude."

    What the senior leadership of this team has lacked is winning intelligence.
    Nothing to see here. Please disperse.

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    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty View Post
    Smart thing they did was part ways with Griffey and Dunn. If there was one constant over the last eight years of losing, it was those two. I know you can't blame them for all the team's woes but you have to question their commitment to winning.
    oh please.

    The Reds didn't win in the Junior/Dunn years for the following reasons:

    01 5.24
    02 4.77
    03 5.46
    04 5.59
    05 5.48
    06 4.94
    07 5.26
    08 4.93

    Those are the Runs Against for the Dunn/Junior years. There's your reason. It had nothing to do with Dunn/Junior's "commitment to winning", it had everything to do with the team's "commitment to giving up way too many runs".
    Last edited by Raisor; 12-07-2008 at 12:55 AM.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty View Post
    Smart thing they did was part ways with Griffey and Dunn. If there was one constant over the last eight years of losing, it was those two. I know you can't blame them for all the team's woes but you have to question their commitment to winning.
    Mr.Red has been around even longer can we blame him too?

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    Re: 2008 Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    oh please.

    The Reds didn't win in the Junior/Dunn years for the following reasons:

    01 5.24
    02 4.77
    03 5.46
    04 5.59
    05 5.48
    06 4.94
    07 5.26
    08 4.93

    Those are the Runs Against for the Dunn/Junior years. There's your reason. It had nothing to do with Dunn/Junior's "commitment to winning", it had everything to do with the team's "commitment to giving up way too many runs".
    You watch--the stink will start to lift now that those two are gone. Now we just need to part ways with Dusty and a little hope may shine through...
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill

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    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Mr.Red has been around even longer can we blame him too?
    It's the mustache, it's not professional.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    You watch--the stink will start to lift now that those two are gone. Now we just need to part ways with Dusty and a little hope may shine through...
    If the RA improves, it's going to be because of Volquez, Cueto, and Harrang.

    Blaming the team's troubles on it's best players is so not cool.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    smells of rich mahogany deltachi8's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    You watch--the stink will start to lift now that those two are gone. Now we just need to part ways with Dusty and a little hope may shine through...
    Wow. Just....wow.
    Nothing to see here. Please disperse.

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    Re: 2008 Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    If the RA improves, it's going to be because of Volquez, Cueto, and Harrang.

    Blaming the team's troubles on it's best players is so not cool.
    Look, those "best" players were traded to contenders, neither of whom want anything to do with them now. In fact, all of baseball is hesitant to take either of them on as FA. I actually think Dunn away from Griffey, and positioned well in a lineup, will help somebody. But he won't fetch huge money as was thought. It's actually Griffey who I have more of a problem with--it always seemed things like being respected or "having fun" was always the most important thing. It's one thing to stay loose, but his horsing around was constant, and trivialized the game in my opinion. The whole season became one big joke, a goof session. Not a good thing for developing Major Leaguers to see. I'm glad they won't be around to influence the top talent the Reds have and that it is guys like Votto who will be looked to.
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    oh please.

    The Reds didn't win in the Junior/Dunn years for the following reasons:

    01 5.24
    02 4.77
    03 5.46
    04 5.59
    05 5.48
    06 4.94
    07 5.26
    08 4.93

    Those are the Runs Against for the Dunn/Junior years. There's your reason. It had nothing to do with Dunn/Junior's "commitment to winning", it had everything to do with the team's "commitment to giving up way too many runs".
    While I don't think Dunn or Griffey were the problem with the team and it was the pitching.... Griffey and Dunn didn't do the pitching any favors in the field in the last 4-5 years to help improve their runs against.

  13. #12
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty View Post
    I know you can't blame them for all the team's woes but you have to question their commitment to winning.
    You "have" to? Really? Why is that?

    Was it all that time you spent in the clubhouse observing them telling the younger players, "hey man, no need to win, we got free food and Playstation" ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    It's one thing to stay loose, but his horsing around was constant, and trivialized the game in my opinion. The whole season became one big joke, a goof session. Not a good thing for developing Major Leaguers to see.
    The beatings will continue until the morale improves.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  14. #13
    Member icehole3's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    Look, those "best" players were traded to contenders, neither of whom want anything to do with them now. In fact, all of baseball is hesitant to take either of them on as FA. I actually think Dunn away from Griffey, and positioned well in a lineup, will help somebody. But he won't fetch huge money as was thought. It's actually Griffey who I have more of a problem with--it always seemed things like being respected or "having fun" was always the most important thing. It's one thing to stay loose, but his horsing around was constant, and trivialized the game in my opinion. The whole season became one big joke, a goof session. Not a good thing for developing Major Leaguers to see. I'm glad they won't be around to influence the top talent the Reds have and that it is guys like Votto who will be looked to.

  15. #14
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: 2008 Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    Look, those "best" players were traded to contenders, neither of whom want anything to do with them now. In fact, all of baseball is hesitant to take either of them on as FA. I actually think Dunn away from Griffey, and positioned well in a lineup, will help somebody. But he won't fetch huge money as was thought. It's actually Griffey who I have more of a problem with--it always seemed things like being respected or "having fun" was always the most important thing. It's one thing to stay loose, but his horsing around was constant, and trivialized the game in my opinion. The whole season became one big joke, a goof session. Not a good thing for developing Major Leaguers to see. I'm glad they won't be around to influence the top talent the Reds have and that it is guys like Votto who will be looked to.
    Yeah, real poor examples those two were...

    http://www.kffl.com/player/5454/MLB

    In 2005, he <Dunn> played with a broken right hand for a substantial portion of the season. The injury was not revealed until the following January when Jerry Narron, then the Reds' manager, said that Dunn, "broke his hand twice last year and wouldn't let us X-ray it because he wanted to play." "I could feel the bone moving in his hand," Kremchek said. "It wasn't something that was going to cause permanent damage, but it hurt like hell. When I pushed on it, you could tell. There is no player in this game that I've ever treated who had the things that he had and continued to play."

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/bu...ey_(griffke02)

    Shortly after this injury <tore hamstring from the bone>, the Reds' team physician, Timothy Kremchek, devised an experimental surgery dubbed "The Junior Operation" that would use three titanium screws to reattach Griffey's hamstring. For several weeks, Griffey's right leg was in a sling that kept the leg at a 90-degree angle, and he was not able to move the leg until late October. After an intense rehabilitation period, he returned for the 2005 season.

    And somehow those two "...trivialized the game..."? No way. Ever.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

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    Re: 2008 Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    oh please.

    The Reds didn't win in the Junior/Dunn years for the following reasons:

    01 5.24
    02 4.77
    03 5.46
    04 5.59
    05 5.48
    06 4.94
    07 5.26
    08 4.93

    Those are the Runs Against for the Dunn/Junior years. There's your reason. It had nothing to do with Dunn/Junior's "commitment to winning", it had everything to do with the team's "commitment to giving up way too many runs".
    Problem too is you had all your money tied up in two ballplayers that you couldn't afford to go out and get good pitching.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.


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