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Thread: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

  1. #196
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Per MLBtraderumors:

    4:34pm: MLB.com's Mark Sheldon adds that the Orioles will receive prospects Brandon Waring and Justin Turner and will send $1MM to the Reds.
    Am I wrong about this or not? The commissioners office only has to ok a deal if it's more than 1 million? I'll be interested to hear the final #'s on this, if it's 1.5-2 million i'd say it's to be expected if it's less i'd have to question why it took so long, if it's more than 2 mill then Walt outdid himself.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  3. #197
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    A Hernandez/Hannigan combo would be worth about 13 RC vs a Ross/Bako combo over 600 PA's.

    If the Reds can upgrade 13 runs at every position, pitching remaining the same, and they'd be a 500 team.
    Ok so what would Dye represent over what we currently have which is pretty much nothing?
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  4. #198
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    A Hernandez/Hannigan combo would be worth about 13 RC vs a Ross/Bako combo over 600 PA's.

    If the Reds can upgrade 13 runs at every position, pitching remaining the same, and they'd be a 500 team.
    Assuming what numbers for Hernandez/Hanigan?

  5. #199
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Ok so what would Dye represent over what we currently have which is pretty much nothing?
    Dye is worth about 100 RC for 600 PA, based on his past three seasons.

    The Reds LF created about 110 runs last year in about 700 PA's, so it would be a wash.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  6. #200
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Assuming what numbers for Hernandez/Hanigan?
    2008 numbers

    Hannigan 11.4 RC/95 PA's
    Hernandez 58/489

    Can't really guess how Dusty is going to use them, so I assumed an even number of PA's for each.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  7. #201
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    My thoughts:

    - Hernandez is a 33 year old catcher with declining offensive value and a mediocre glove - we darn well better not taking on salary this year or next
    - .260./.310/.400 and experienced or .270/.360/.370 without experience. Who do YOU think Dusty will play 80% of the time?
    - If all we wanted was an upgrade over Paul Bako, we could have simply played Hanigan every day
    - I think Ryan Freel will provide more value above replacement in 2009 than Hernandez will.
    - Who plays CF versus lefties? Dickerson or a new acquisition?
    - The Reds don't see Jeff Keppinger as a starter -- or see Castillo as a good enough utility guy
    - I'm surprised we traded only SS in the system who could both field and hit, if neither superbly. I thought Turner had an outside shot of being the starting SS by the end of the season and could become a Mark DeRosa type utility guy.
    - Waring is one of those high risk/ high reward types where we'll either never hear about him again or will be smacking ourselves in the forehead for years to come
    - I wonder if we can extrapolate regarding Jocketty's view of big power, big strikeout type bats in general?
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  8. #202
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Turner isn't a SS, is he? Pretty sure he is a 2nd baseman.

  9. #203
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    I love this deal! This offseason is off to a good start. Now let's hope Bailey-for-Dye materializes.

    I almost can't believe it. We have a real catcher. One that is solid defensively and at the plate. I'm shocked. Plus we have what I think is a very solid backup in Hanigan. Unproven in terms of playing a full MLB season, but I think he will be a fine backup for Hernandez.

  10. #204
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Dye is worth about 100 RC for 600 PA, based on his past three seasons.

    The Reds LF created about 110 runs last year in about 700 PA's, so it would be a wash.
    So what we really need to improve this team is a grade A SS if not we shouldn't expect anything more than a .500 club? I'm assuming this doesn't include a Harang bounceback and overall improvement from the youth.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  11. #205
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    That's the "Freel hustles!" aspect factoring in.

    If he isn't posting that .350 on-base percentage, they'll sour on him fast. Just like I did.
    Yup. People like Freel because of the highlights they see on Sportscenter of him hustling but when he's first pitch swinging, getting picked off 1st, and diving for a ball that he has no chance at and injuring himself, then ask those same fans how much they love his hustle. Don't get me wrong I liked Farney a lot, but he's he's expensive and expandable.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  12. #206
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    I love this deal! This offseason is off to a good start. Now let's hope Bailey-for-Dye materializes.

    I almost can't believe it. We have a real catcher. One that is solid defensively and at the plate. I'm shocked. Plus we have what I think is a very solid backup in Hanigan. Unproven in terms of playing a full MLB season, but I think he will be a fine backup for Hernandez.
    Bailey for Dye and either sign Furcal, Hudson, or trade for a SS. Add in a Rhodes or Reyes and we'll start having a team.

  13. #207
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    So what we really need to improve this team is a grade A SS if not we shouldn't expect anything more than a .500 club? I'm assuming this doesn't include a Harang bounceback and overall improvement from the youth.
    Like I said, that was barring any change in the pitching.

    The playoff teams last year had an average run differential of +102 runs last year.

    If the Reds want to have a shot at the playoffs, that's what they need to aim for.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  14. #208
    Quiet Reverence Vada Pinson Fan's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Appears to be a nice trade by Walt Jocketty. First piece of this off-season is signed (not counting Lincoln, of course), sealed and delivered. Still hoping Ken Williams wants to trade Jermaine Dye to the Reds for Homer and a Double-A/Single-A prospect or two. Glad Jocketty had a Turner and Waring type players to consumate the deal while leaving our more promising prospects still a part of the Reds future. Quite happy we have Hernandez and not Laird. Hernandez should give Cincinnati 2 years (hopefully more) of above average offense and defense.

  15. #209
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    Depends on the SS.

    If it's Janish, then Hernandez hits 7th.
    dusty says, SS bats 2nd.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  16. #210
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I think Ryan Freel will provide more value above replacement in 2009 than Hernandez will.
    Freel's game in the field is based around speed. He's getting into his mid 30's and has had leg injuries.

    His game at the plate is plate discipline and (allegedly) speed. The plate discipline isn't likely to go away, but the speed very well could.

    Who knows? Maybe Freel returns to the super-sub, not great but decent guy with a solid OBP. But based on his game type, age and injuries I think it far more likely that he fades rather than excels.

    I can also envision a scenario where Freel struggles due to age/rust and pushes himself harder to compensate. Pushing harder will lead to more injuries or taking greater risks (which, in turn, leads back to injuries).

    Lastly, and this is purely speculative, but that collision with Hopper was pretty wicked. That may be one of those injuries that lingers and he never quite recovers even though on the surface he seems healthy.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate


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