No one said there was. Literally, no one.Originally Posted by RedsManRick
No one said there was. Literally, no one.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
To be honest, I wouldn't have been too excited about seeing what would happen to Guthrie's numbers at GABP. He kind of seems like the epitome of a pitcher who would have a potential career-ending season in Cincinnati. For what it's worth, the Orioles were higher on the waiver wire list when Guthrie was waived, so if the Reds wanted him, they would have needed to make an offer before Guthrie hit the waiver wire.
I don't remember stating that anybody did. Thanks for clarifying though.
Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.
Just dancing with a strawman?
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
I'm still trying to figure out the downside of this trade. How is a trade poor when wins are added and nothing but maybe a million dollars of payroll are added? Waring? Turner? These are even discussion-worthy?
“And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith
I wasn't making an argument. I was restating what I thought was a clear assessment of how the traded helped and where it did not.
Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.
Well, the way I see this trade, is this:
At worst, we've cleaned up the "gift" left on the carpet by our pet and gotten rid of the bad smell.
At best, we've covered the stain with an area rug.
Still need new carpet but we can have friends over now.
Dumping the contract would constitute "cleaning up".
Replacing it with a bigger one? Not so much.
Was it that much bigger though?
I guess I don't know; does anyone know what the Orioles supplied in cash?
“And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith
3 million according to CBSSports.com the other day.
"My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton
I've seen "about $2M" on Cot's.
Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.
The more money the O's send the better the deal, obviously. But chipping in prospects and cash to marginally improve the catching while diminishing the outfield depth doesn't exactly fire up my dopamine.
Only if you consider adding payroll a bad thing no matter what.
Adding a small amount of payroll to take catching from abysmal to meh? Sign me up.
I have a few customers who think this way (that is view the value of a part in very strict and narrow terms). They refuse to pay even $.01 more for a part than they are currently paying. Price, and only price, is what they consider.
That their current part fails constantly, is expensive to assemble, results in huge warranty issues, and create customer negativity towards their product just doesn't figure into their assessment of value.
There can be value in player moves beyond the production found on the field. And no, I'm not talking about the goofy "intangibles" that people latch onto.
Last edited by Ltlabner; 12-12-2008 at 07:36 AM.
The resources to address them are not really diminished, given that Freel's contract has been subtracted. It remains a significant upgrade at a key position with no real loss to the talent base in the organization. How one quibbles......Our remaining strengths and weakness are just as they were before and our resources to address them a little bit less. A 150 run differential is now 130 runs (or whatever numbers you like) and we have no additional ways of going about addressing it than we had prior the move.
I fail to see how "statistical analysis" of this deal amounts to anything more than the usual looking-down-the-nose at minor transactions -- such as when it is proclaimed that such-and-such a newly acquired role player will not deliver the division and that it would be far better for the team to have, oh, a much better player.
Jocketty's fortifying the backbone of the roster. Don't expect a lot of pretty faces.
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