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View Poll Results: Hal McCoy and his 0-fers--why can't he get it right?

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  • Some people don't like him and try to dupe him into looking like a fool.

    8 17.02%
  • He's lazy.

    4 8.51%
  • He's overzealous about getting a "scoop."

    29 61.70%
  • His sources are old.

    6 12.77%
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Thread: Why is Hal McCoy always wrong?

  1. #16
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hal McCoy always wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    He was repeating what John Allen said.

    Hal has gotten some things right. Also, he clearly called the Dye trade a rumor.

    I don't get why people are piling on Hal. Would you rather have someone not report anything until the Reds issue a press release? Would you rather have not had any information about the possible Dye-Homer trade? Makes for a boring offseason. Hal is good at scooping up legitimate rumors in the offseason. I'm glad he is still reporting for the Reds, and I think when he retires, we are going to get a lot less information in the offseason.
    McCoy > Fay

    CTrent/TonyJackson > Fay

    It could be a lot worse.
    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.

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  3. #17
    Member Wheelhouse's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hal McCoy always wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty View Post
    Then explain to me how he got in the writers' portion of the Hall of Fame?
    Folksy, metaphor laden articles and simply, time with one paper covering one organization.
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill

  4. #18
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hal McCoy always wrong?

    Has anybody posted this?

    Dying to hear about Dye

    By Hal McCoy | Monday, December 8, 2008, 04:23 PM

    So far, on this chilly Monday afternoon in Dayton, there has been no confirmation or announcement on the trade of pitcher Homer Bailey to the Chicago White Sox (with a couple of minor-leaguers tossed in) for outfielder Jermaine Dye.

    As many of you might suspect - because there is no LAS VEGAS dateline on my newspaper stories, I am NOT at the winter meetings. The economy being what it is, it just made little sense for the paper to send me to the meetings for four or five days when news out the winter meetings is so scarce.

    Let’s hope there hasn’t been a snag in the deal. My source, reliable and an insider with the White Sox, says there is a deal in place. Or was.

    White Sox GM Ken Williams is known as a tough guy to deal with and has been known to change his mind on a quick whim. And he might want more than the Reds are willing to part with from the minor-league system.

    The deal certainly would be good for the Reds, even though Dye is 34 years old and Bailey is only 22.

    For once the Reds have a surplus of starting pitchers and they need a righthanded bat, preferably in the outfield. Dye, who hit 34 homers last year, would hit that many, if not more, playing in Great American Ball Park.

    While he does strike out (104 times last season), it is still far fewer than Adam Dunn (164) and Dye is a better defensive player and baserunner. He also hits for a better average - .292 to Dunn’s .245. They are about equals in RBIs (Dunn 100, Dye 96). Dunn takes more walks - 112 to 44.

    It is a good trade for the Reds. Bailey still has a large upside and may soon live up to his pre-signing hype, but it isn’t likely to happen in Cincinnati.
    http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/con...about_dye.html
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  5. #19
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hal McCoy always wrong?

    I picked the third option, but I think the second one is applicable, too.

  6. #20
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hal McCoy always wrong?

    much ado about nothing.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  7. #21
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hal McCoy always wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    This because he thought Griffey had a no-trade clause, which he didn't. He was a 10-5 player, which for some reason, Hal can't distinguish between.
    This is IMO picking nits. for all intents and purposes, 10/5 acts as a full no trade clause. A player with either has to approve ANY trade.

    I can take Hal or leave him. I have the Dayton Daily News bookmarked, I'll pretty much read anything Reds related.

    Also IMO what Hal does is generally in promotion of the team. He's not overly critical and he isn't on the payroll. He is getting on in years and his sources are likely starting to dry up. But, again, IMO he reported the Dye trade as a rumor with a source saying it was a done deal.

    If I were Hal, I'd take my source to task a bit.

    Still Hal does more to promote the Reds than Marty does.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  8. #22
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    Re: Why is Hal McCoy always wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by 15fan View Post
    Good writers don't spend their careers at the Dayton Daily News.
    That's not true and it's not fair. The DDN has shelled out over the years to keep some high-profile guys like McCoy, Archdeacon and Nuhn. There was a time when it was considered a really strong metro newspaper with an excellent sports desk. Hal has made some mistakes in recent years, and the newspaper has tolerated too many of those in my opinion. Doesn't change the fact that McCoy not only has been the best Reds beat writer for a long, lont time, but also one of the most respected in the business for the bulk of his career.

    The guy had a job he loved and found a place he wanted to raise a family, and the DDN made sure it kept him happy. Look what they've done for him as his eyesight failed. Why wouldn't he want to stay and work for an organization like that?

  9. #23
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hal McCoy always wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    He blew the Dan O'Brien hiring--saying Krivsky had been hired.

    He repeatedly called the Griffey to Reds deal dead.

    He repeatedly said there was no way Griffey would accept being traded from the Reds, and that we ignorant readers should "get off it." This because he thought Griffey had a no-trade clause, which he didn't. He was a 10-5 player, which for some reason, Hal can't distinguish between.

    And there have been others which I can't recall at the moment...
    He's been wrong numerous times. His playbook includes blaming his editors. The one that comes to mind is when his story headlined "Hall of Famer Steve Garvey". If that was my article I would have stated it was a mistake that shouldn't have happened at this paper and I'll take care of it immediately. Instead he gets defensive and says he has no control over what his editors do and then the mistake stays on the website. It never did get corrected. He needs to realize that stuff like that reflects poorly on him.

    One thing is for sure, he does not like to be caught with an inaccuracy in his articles.

  10. #24
    Member Wheelhouse's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hal McCoy always wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    This is IMO picking nits. for all intents and purposes, 10/5 acts as a full no trade clause. A player with either has to approve ANY trade.

    I can take Hal or leave him. I have the Dayton Daily News bookmarked, I'll pretty much read anything Reds related.

    Also IMO what Hal does is generally in promotion of the team. He's not overly critical and he isn't on the payroll. He is getting on in years and his sources are likely starting to dry up. But, again, IMO he reported the Dye trade as a rumor with a source saying it was a done deal.

    If I were Hal, I'd take my source to task a bit.

    Still Hal does more to promote the Reds than Marty does.
    Actually, you're wrong. With a no trade clause, a team cannot conduct a trade until the player releases his no-trade rights. No trade can be presented to the commissioner's office in this instance until the player has agreed to allow a trade to be pursued. With a 10-5 player, the trade can be made and presented to the commissioner's office, but the final act is the player approving it, for which he has three days. The difference is that a 10-5 trade is made public and public pressures come to bear, on all sides. This can have a tremendous effect on the player's decision a) because of public opinion (i.e. f there is an outcry for the player to stay, or obvious enthusiasm for the trade) and b) because it is different to agree to be traded with a host of unknowns vs. knowing that a certain trade is in place to a certain team. If you were a player, you'd say 10-5 vs a no-trade clause is very different indeed.

    Also, Hal does not do more to promote the Reds than Marty. Marty is the face of the franchise around the country, like him or not.
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill

  11. #25
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hal McCoy always wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    Actually, you're wrong. With a no trade clause, a team cannot conduct a trade until the player releases his no-trade rights. No trade can be presented to the commissioner's office in this instance until the player has agreed to allow a trade to be pursued. With a 10-5 player, the trade can be made and presented to the commissioner's office, but the final act is the player approving it, for which he has three days. The difference is that a 10-5 trade is made public and public pressures come to bear, on all sides. This can have a tremendous effect on the player's decision a) because of public opinion (i.e. f there is an outcry for the player to stay, or obvious enthusiasm for the trade) and b) because it is different to agree to be traded with a host of unknowns vs. knowing that a certain trade is in place to a certain team. If you were a player, you'd say 10-5 vs a no-trade clause is very different indeed.

    Also, Hal does not do more to promote the Reds than Marty. Marty is the face of the franchise around the country, like him or not.
    semantics. plain and simple in either case, the trade cannot be completed without player approval. and as a courtesy, GM's almost ALWAYS go to the player first.

    And as far as Marty being the "Face" (voice would be more accurate) um, no. The face is a player, and right now, that is in flux. Marty may be the voice, be he hardly promotes the team. Trashes it? yes, he does that a lot.
    Last edited by TRF; 12-09-2008 at 01:36 PM.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  12. #26
    So Long Uncle Joe BoydsOfSummer's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hal McCoy always wrong?

    Dying to hear about Dye

    By Hal McCoy | Monday, December 8, 2008, 04:23 PM

    So far, on this chilly Monday afternoon in Dayton, there has been no confirmation or announcement on the trade of pitcher Homer Bailey to the Chicago White Sox (with a couple of minor-leaguers tossed in) for outfielder Jermaine Dye.
    That's the part that scares me. Homer straight up is fine with me.
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  13. #27
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hal McCoy always wrong?

    I guess I just don't take sports seriously enough because I care about "excellence in journalisim" with sports writers as much as I do the intern covering the local tallent show and the garage sale listings. They really aren't much above a local highschool newspaper reporter doing a hard hitting expose on the quality of the caffeteria food.

    It's just hard to find the energy to work up ire over a "report" about rumors, speculation and "inside sources" when that's about all a sports reporter has to go on until the deal is made official.

    Besides which, when did "inside sources" become some sort of touch-stone for rock solid truth and accuracy? If you read "inside sources" and bet the farm it's gospel truth, accurate and correct that's a you problem.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  14. #28
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hal McCoy always wrong?

    If Hal wasn't sure he shouldn't have written the story since the rumor was already out there. Unless he had something that could advance the story, he should have stayed quiet. I still think Dye may very well be in the Reds Opening Day lineup but this story does not reflect well on Hal.

    Ltabner, I don't think I hold sportswriters to a high standard. I hold them to the same standard that I hold RZers. If someone here came out and said "I have a source and ...is a done deal", I'd climb over them as well.

  15. #29
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hal McCoy always wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Ltabner, I don't think I hold sportswriters to a high standard. I hold them to the same standard that I hold RZers. If someone here came out and said "I have a source and ...is a done deal", I'd climb over them as well.
    That's where we differ.

    If someone here came out and said, "I have a source and ....is a done deal" I'd think to myself, "this is a faceless person on the internet who has as much chance of having an inside source as I do hitting a curveball". It would never occur to me to put stock into what "someone" on the internet reported. When it was revealed the report was in error I'd think "yep...about what I expect out of an internet rumor".

    Same goes for sports writers. I pretty much assume what they report is gibberish so it's hard to get worked up when it comes to pass.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  16. #30
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Why is Hal McCoy always wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    If Hal wasn't sure he shouldn't have written the story since the rumor was already out there. Unless he had something that could advance the story, he should have stayed quiet.
    What if the source was someone well-connected who had provided correct information before? Without knowing what his scoop was based on, it's silly to place all the blame on Hal.
    /r/reds


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