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Thread: Traded

  1. #16
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Traded

    So let me ask those of you who are opposed to the question.... Since the Reds filled a need (of at least a second catcher on the roster who can hold his own weight) and traded a backup outfielder and maintained all top 20 prospects in the system, how terrible of a trade can it really be?

    I like Turner, I think he is a fine player and a solid prospect.... but lets be real here. He didn't make my top 20 prospects. He didn't make the community top 20 prospects. He didn't make John Sickels top 20 prospects. Would I have loved to trade Joe Blow from the GCL who can't OPS .700? Of course, but thats not going to happen. We kept our top 20+ prospects in a deal that fills an absolute need on the major league team.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Traded

    My main gripe with the deal was the money, but that seems to be clearing up a little. I'm not really high on Hernandez but if a new start helps the guy out and he returns to close to his former self then I will be happy as all get out.

  4. #18
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    Re: Traded

    I agree entirely with Doug on this. The interesting question will be what kind of numbers Hernandez can put up if he isn't overextended in games played as he was last year. What will he do if he plays 100 games with Hanigan getting the other 62--a proportion I think they might very well work out. Last year he played 133, which is a lot, and he was very tired at the end of the season. He lost 20 points off his OPS in his last ten starts alone. Besides, Hanigan simply does not have enough of a track record for us to go into the season with him as the starter and a Castillo or Tatum backing him up. Hernandez is in a contract year, too, and that should add to his motivation to do well, and GABP is a good place to build some stats. Going into the season with Hernandez-Hanigan just seems to me a quantum leap over Hanigan-Castillo or Hanigan-Tatum (and a significant improvement over Bako-Ross-Javy). I don't think this could have been gotten done without at least one significant prospect changing hands and frankly it surprises me we got away with it being Turner rather than somebody higher up the list. Most of the alternative deals for catchers we've hear rumored have involved the pitchers--Bailey, Roenicke. That group is still intact and instead we traded two guys who really are fairly well blocked by other people in the organization.

  5. #19
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Traded

    It looks like this deal clears the way for Soto in 'sota, but this raises some interesting questions: Who will play third base for Dayton? Frank Pfister? And who will play in the Carolina outfield? Does that mean Sean Henry isn't getting promoted? Will B.J. Szymanski get extended playing time?

  6. #20
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    Re: Traded

    I want a Pfister uni so bad

  7. #21
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    Re: Traded

    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    I want a Pfister uni so bad
    Me, too. I was hoping the Reds signed their 15th rounder, Eric Pfisterer, so I could see Pfister and Pfisterer sitting next to each other in the dugout.

    This guy had the same thought, apparently:
    http://www.dunnanddunner.com/2008/06...tantly-my.html

  8. #22
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    Re: Traded

    Is Henry a rule 5 guy?
    Last edited by BigRed07; 12-10-2008 at 01:28 AM.

  9. #23
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Traded

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRed07 View Post
    I heard some where BJ was retiring.
    Wow, if that's true, then the Reds have a lot of holes to fill in the AA and AAA outfields. They have 5-7 players for about eight spots.

    AAA:
    Sean Henry (rule five eligible)
    Shaun Cumberland (rule five eligible)
    Drew Stubbs
    Darnell McDonald

    AA:
    Chris Heisey
    Carson Kainer
    Todd Frazier or Juan Francisco (one of them is likely to get more time at third base and the other more time in left field)

    A+:
    Kel Jones
    Danny Perales
    Denis Phipps
    Yuber Rodriguez
    Justin Reed?

  10. #24
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    Re: Traded

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    So let me ask those of you who are opposed to the question.... Since the Reds filled a need (of at least a second catcher on the roster who can hold his own weight) and traded a backup outfielder and maintained all top 20 prospects in the system, how terrible of a trade can it really be?

    I like Turner, I think he is a fine player and a solid prospect.... but lets be real here. He didn't make my top 20 prospects. He didn't make the community top 20 prospects. He didn't make John Sickels top 20 prospects. Would I have loved to trade Joe Blow from the GCL who can't OPS .700? Of course, but thats not going to happen. We kept our top 20+ prospects in a deal that fills an absolute need on the major league team.
    Exackackaly.

  11. #25
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Traded

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    So let me ask those of you who are opposed to the question.... Since the Reds filled a need (of at least a second catcher on the roster who can hold his own weight) and traded a backup outfielder and maintained all top 20 prospects in the system, how terrible of a trade can it really be?

    I like Turner, I think he is a fine player and a solid prospect.... but lets be real here. He didn't make my top 20 prospects. He didn't make the community top 20 prospects. He didn't make John Sickels top 20 prospects. Would I have loved to trade Joe Blow from the GCL who can't OPS .700? Of course, but thats not going to happen. We kept our top 20+ prospects in a deal that fills an absolute need on the major league team.
    Basically agree Doug, but the deal was Freel for Hernandez and reports are that the prospects were only included in exchange for the Orioles covering part of Hernandez' salary. Some reports go as high as $3 Million and if true, its a good deal. I've also seen only $1 Million in a lot of places. If so, I'd have kept Turner and paid Hernandez the extra $1 Million.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  12. #26
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    Re: Traded

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Basically agree Doug, but the deal was Freel for Hernandez and reports are that the prospects were only included in exchange for the Orioles covering part of Hernandez' salary. Some reports go as high as $3 Million and if true, its a good deal. I've also seen only $1 Million in a lot of places. If so, I'd have kept Turner and paid Hernandez the extra $1 Million.
    In this hypothetical situation, I would have wanted the same thing, but I think the Reds have less room in the budget than it seems. It's estimated that the Reds will have about $80 million for the payroll budget. Here's how I see the Reds' 25-man roster budget panning out:

    0.100 Juan Castro BO
    2.000 Ken Griffey, Jr. BO
    0.500 Mike Stanton BO
    0.375 Dave Ross BO

    6.000? Ramon Hernandez
    0.415 Joey Votto
    4.750 Brandon Phillips
    3.500? Edwin Encarnacion
    5.375 Alex Gonzalez
    ?.??? un-signed left fielder
    0.405 Chris Dickerson
    0.410 Jay Bruce
    0.405 Ryan Hanigan
    0.420 Jeff Keppinger
    0.405 Danny Richar/Paul Janish/Adam Rosales/Wilkin Castillo
    0.415 Norris Hopper
    ?.??? reserve outfielder
    0.420 Edinson Volquez
    11.000 Aaron Harang
    0.410 Johnny Cueto
    9.500 Bronson Arroyo
    0.410 Micah Owings
    12.000 Francisco Cordero
    3.800? Dave Weathers
    1.500 Mike Lincoln
    0.420 Jared Burton
    0.415 Bill Bray
    0.410 Nick Masset
    ?.??? Denys Reyes/Arthur Rhodes
    --------------------
    65.760

    Here are the question marks:
    How much money do the Reds receive with Ramon Hernandez?
    How much will Edwin Encarnacion receive in arbitration?
    How much will the right-handed left fielder cost?
    How much will a reserve outfielder/platoon partner in center cost?
    How much will Dave Weathers receive in arbitration?
    Will the Reds sign a left-hander for the bullpen to a Major League contract?
    Will the Reds offer Gary Majewski and/or Matt Belisle arbitration?

    Anyway, the Reds will have about $15 million to spend on a left-handed reliever, a reserve outfielder, and most importantly, a starting left fielder. All together, I figure that should cost about $15 million, and it looks like the Reds are on the brink of their speculated budget. That's also assuming that the Reds offer neither Majewski nor Belisle arbitration and that the Reds don't go after a starter in free agency. $1 million could easily make the difference between being over or under the budget. With Danny Richar, Chris Valaika, Alex Buchholz, Cody Puckett, Yen-Wen Kuo, etc. in the organization, I'm not going to sweat losing Red Turner for $1 million or so if it means improving the 2009 Major League roster a little bit.

  13. #27
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    Re: Traded

    Count me in the pro-Turner camp. I'm sorry to see him go. It's funny that he was in the same trade with Freel, since I see both as good utility guys. Solid fundamentals and flat-out hustle. I think he's going to surprise a lot of folks in the next few seasons.

  14. #28
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    Re: Traded

    I am sure the Reds feel like they got a great trade. They unloaded a major leaguer they wanted to move and parted ways with two minor leaguers that their evaluators told them would not help them at the big league level. Time will tell if they correctly evaluated Turner and Waring. Good luck to Brandon, one of the truly nice people in the world and a guy who was a pleasure to have known.

    Neftali Soto, whatever chance there might have been that you were going back to
    Dayton is now null and void. Jake Kahaulelio is also dancing in the streets today with the Turner deal.

    Have not seen the Billings players, but could the Dayton infield feature Puckett at 2B, Buchholz at SS, and either Mendez or Gualdron at 3B?

  15. #29
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    Re: Traded

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Me, too. I was hoping the Reds signed their 15th rounder, Eric Pfisterer, so I could see Pfister and Pfisterer sitting next to each other in the dugout.

    This guy had the same thought, apparently:
    http://www.dunnanddunner.com/2008/06...tantly-my.html

  16. #30
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Traded

    I was actually thinking Puckett would be at short with Buchholz at second. You would know better than me, though. This is what I was expecting in Dayton:

    C Jordan Wideman
    1B Mike Konstanty
    2B Alex Buchholz
    3B Carlos Mendez
    SS Cody Puckett
    LF Tony Brown
    CF Dave Sappelt
    RF Alex Oliveras
    C Todd Waller (if he isn't released--otherwise, I'd expect Kyle Day to fill in with Chris McMurray coming in)
    IF Jose Gualdron
    IF Darrick Hale
    OF Brandon Menchaca
    C/OF Kyle Day

    SP Kyle Lotzkar (coming off arm surgery)
    SP Shea Snowden
    SP Evan Hildenbrandt
    SP Drew Bowman
    SP Curtis Partch
    CL Scott Gaffney (coming off arm surgery)
    RP Aguido Gonzalez
    RP Mace Thurman
    RP Brandon Rice
    RP Derrick Conatser

    I expect one of the following to be cut before the start of the regular season, but here is who I expect to see as the candidates for long relief or emergency starting:
    Juan Rafael
    Enerio Del Rosario
    Josh Ravin
    Jamie Arneson
    Daniel Guerrero


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