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Thread: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

  1. #226
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    The Reds didn't spend any extra money to get Hernandez, the O's made up the difference.
    If that's the case, it's a great deal by Jocketty. The team addresses a glaring need and they didn't add a dime of payroll or touch anything resembling a top prospect.
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  3. #227
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    If that's the case, it's a great deal by Jocketty. The team addresses a glaring need and they didn't add a dime of payroll or touch anything resembling a top prospect.
    Plus, Hernandez is a Type A free agent and could net the Reds two draft picks next year. This is a very solid deal by Walt. Now hopefully he's working on finding a shortstop and outfielder.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  4. #228
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    Re: Trade Idea- Freel for Ramon Hernandez?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    pretty amazing. we get rid of Freel and improve the team at the same time. and we didn't really lose any key prospects.
    99 sb's against last year, threw out 24%.

    Let's hope he doesn't catch Homer Bailey.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  5. #229
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Plus, Hernandez is a Type A free agent and could net the Reds two draft picks next year. This is a very solid deal by Walt. Now hopefully he's working on finding a shortstop and outfielder.
    Doesn't he have to perform well this year to keep that Type A status? And wouldn't the Reds have to offer him arbitration (after they buy out his contract) even in that case (which he'd probably accept as a 34 year old catcher).

    I'm still in favor of the deal, but I don't think his current Type A status will be much of a factor.
    Go BLUE!!!

  6. #230
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Doesn't he have to perform well this year to keep that Type A status? And wouldn't the Reds have to offer him arbitration (after they buy out his contract) even in that case (which he'd probably accept as a 34 year old catcher).

    I'm still in favor of the deal, but I don't think his current Type A status will be much of a factor.
    I agree with that. But I wonder if he doesn't perform very well does he become a type B and if so would the arbitration # come close to the contract salary if not bought out?
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  7. #231
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Unless his numbers fall completely off, he'll most likely remain a Type A free agent.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  8. #232
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    I agree with that. But I wonder if he doesn't perform very well does he become a type B and if so would the arbitration # come close to the contract salary if not bought out?
    IIRC, a player can't get cut more than 20% in arbitration
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  9. #233
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Good solid work by WJ. What's next?
    Hope Springs Eternal

  10. #234
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    This is what Walt Jocketty does.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  11. #235
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    IIRC, a player can't get cut more than 20% in arbitration
    So really best case scenario is the economy rebounds Hernandez has an exceptional year, we decline the option and then offer arbitration. That's probably the only way it's a smart move to offer it.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  12. #236
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    I'm not up in arms or anything, I just think we're doing what fans of a team always do when their team makes a trade: playing up the value upside of the guy(s) they got and diminishing the value of the guy(s) they gave up.

    The values of the sides here based on reasonable projections are close enough that it simply comes down to how the guys play in 2009 and if the prospects develop. I think he's roughly comparable to what we'll get from Hanigan and no matter what, there's only 700 PA to be had between them. I don't think Freel, Turner, Waring, and $2M is worth 200 extra PA of Hanigan. If Hernandez puts up his peak numbers again, it's a pretty clear win -- but I just don't see that happening. And I think there's a real risk of Hernandez continuing to decline, hitting .250/.300/.360, and still getting the lion's share of the PA's because he's the "proven vet".

    My biggest concern remains our OF situation. I would've made Castillo my #2 catcher and focused elsewhere. I'm concerned that we're frittering away the room we have to maneuver and will be unable to do anything impactful with LF. As I said, deck chairs.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #237
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    I would've made Castillo my #2 catcher and focused elsewhere.
    Plenty of time. They've made a run at Dye already...

    We don't know how well Castillo catches.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  14. #238
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I'm not up in arms or anything, I just think we're doing what fans of a team always do when their team makes a trade: playing up the value upside of the guy(s) they got and diminishing the value of the guy(s) they gave up.
    You've been here for four years now, you should know that if this place does not like an acquisition, it will let you know in no undertain terms.

    Redszone rarely, if ever, collectively "likes" transactions.
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  15. #239
    Member CougarQuest's Avatar
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    WJ
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

  16. #240
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    Re: Freel traded for Ramon Hernandez

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post

    The values of the sides here based on reasonable projections are close enough that it simply comes down to how the guys play in 2009 and if the prospects develop. My biggest concern remains our OF situation. I would've made Castillo my #2 catcher and focused elsewhere.
    1. Making Castillo the #2 catcher leaves you with two HUGE question marks at one of the most important positions on the field, not to mention most likely well below average production.
    2. Freel and Co. were not going to be primary trade chips to focus anywhere else. There is no reason why you can't "focus elsewhere" beginning now.

    I applaud this trade.
    Go BLUE!!!


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