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Thread: Reds have talked to agents for Baldelli, Rivera, plan to talk Burrell

  1. #31
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds have talked to agents for Baldelli, Rivera, plan to talk Burrell

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    I didn't realize Rivera was 30 already, that makes him a lot less attractive. I'd love to get Baldelli and have him platoon with Dickerson though. Sign Burrell, trade Homer for a SS, then we have something.
    You actually want to pay money to a guy who has the following games played total over his career:

    156
    136
    92
    35
    28

    That's an abysmal track record. He has an unspecified mitochondiral-abnormality that causes him to experience extreme fatigue when playing. That kind of illness doesn't just get better overnight.

    Big pass on Baldelli. That'd be like flushing perfectly good cash down the toilet.
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  3. #32
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    Re: Reds have talked to agents for Baldelli, Rivera, plan to talk Burrell

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Well he hasn't exactly had a real good opportunity to prove anything at this point. Exactly 2 times he has gotten 400 PA's (more than a platoon situation) and in those 2 times he's posted .300+ BA, .360+ OBP, .465+ Slg%. He also at age 25 had been showing the improvement that you talk about with regards to talking BB's in a full season that year he was on pace for 50+ BB's. Had he not had to fight for playing time perhaps he would have settled in and improved to the point where he would have had 60 or more in a season which is your minimum for what age 26 or 27. Perhaps you are wrong about Rivera, just sayin' if you give him a chance he might just prove he's more than a free swinger.
    There are usually one or two players each season the Reds acquire that I'm absolutely dead set against. And there are always people who are wanting to give those players a chance. It's the grass is greener on the other side phenomena.

    Juan Rivera would be one of those guys for me in 2009 if the Reds acquired him.
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  4. #33
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    Re: Reds have talked to agents for Baldelli, Rivera, plan to talk Burrell

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    I didn't realize Rivera was 30 already, that makes him a lot less attractive. I'd love to get Baldelli and have him platoon with Dickerson though. Sign Burrell, trade Homer for a SS, then we have something.
    Can't argue with that plan.

  5. #34
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Reds have talked to agents for Baldelli, Rivera, plan to talk Burrell

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I'd be with you, but your arguments lose all water when you say "Jermaine Dye can help the Reds win ballgames."

    Trading for Jermaine Dye is buying into the same fairytale nonsense that signing Juan Rivera requires. The difference is that with Dye, you buy into the fairytale that outfielders get better with age as opposed to Rivera, that he can replicate his base-hit driven OBA on a consistent basis.

    They're both crap targets, and the Reds deserve to finish in the cellar if they acquire either one.
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not excited about Dye either. He's just a better, safer target than Rivera despite the age. I wouldn't be interested in Dye as anything but a stopgap, and I won't lie when I state that part of Dye's appeal is his likely high Type FA status.

    If anything, the Dye aspect also tells you how much I wouldn't miss Homer Bailey.
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  6. #35
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    Re: Reds have talked to agents for Baldelli, Rivera, plan to talk Burrell

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    You actually want to pay money to a guy who has the following games played total over his career:

    156
    136
    92
    35
    28

    That's an abysmal track record. He has an unspecified mitochondiral-abnormality that causes him to experience extreme fatigue when playing. That kind of illness doesn't just get better overnight.

    Big pass on Baldelli. That'd be like flushing perfectly good cash down the toilet.
    It depends how much money and how many years he would take to acquire. If it's a multi year deal, then I don't want any part of him. If it's a one year deal for a couple mil, I think the talent is there to take a flier on.

    Have him start part time against lefties for Dickerson, and keep is playing time down. He's not that much more of an injury risk than Hairston, and has more upside.

    I would rather pay Baldelli than Hairston.

  7. #36
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds have talked to agents for Baldelli, Rivera, plan to talk Burrell

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    There are usually one or two players each season the Reds acquire that I'm absolutely dead set against. And there are always people who are wanting to give those players a chance. It's the grass is greener on the other side phenomena.

    Juan Rivera would be one of those guys for me in 2009 if the Reds acquired him.
    Ok, but you didn't really give a good argument other than he doesn't take enough BB's. Still he has posted very good OBP's when given the opportunities and when he wasn't hurt. I see you don't believe he can maintain that kind of OBP% while not taking enough BB's but he hasn't really had the opportunity to disprove he can't take enough BB's. I know if I got inconsistent play I'd be awfully eager to swing the bat instead of being patient also.
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  8. #37
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    Re: Reds have talked to agents for Baldelli, Rivera, plan to talk Burrell

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Ok, but you didn't really give a good argument other than he doesn't take enough BB's. Still he has posted very good OBP's when given the opportunities and when he wasn't hurt. I see you don't believe he can maintain that kind of OBP% while not taking enough BB's but he hasn't really had the opportunity to disprove he can't take enough BB's. I know if I got inconsistent play I'd be awfully eager to swing the bat instead of being patient also.
    Juan Rivera is 30-years-old. He is who he is.

    His lifetime MLB PA/BB rate is 15.45. His lifetime minor league PA/BB rate is 14.60. You want guys in the 12 or under crowd, not well over 12. His entire professional career - majors and minors - is a walking pile of evidence that Juan Rivera will never walk at an acceptable rate.

    If he isn't hitting .300 in the major leagues with consistency and regularity, I'm not interested. Juan Rivera isn't hitting .300 with consistency and regularity, and now he's on the wrong side of 30 while coming off a broken leg.

    Don't get me wrong, there are other reasons besides Juan Rivera on why I don't want Juan Rivera. But Juan Rivera himself is far good enough reason alone.
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  9. #38
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    Re: Reds have talked to agents for Baldelli, Rivera, plan to talk Burrell

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    Juan Rivera is 30-years-old. He is who he is.

    His lifetime MLB PA/BB rate is 15.45. His lifetime minor league PA/BB rate is 14.60. You want guys in the 12 or under crowd, not well over 12. His entire professional career - majors and minors - is a walking pile of evidence that Juan Rivera will never walk at an acceptable rate.

    If he isn't hitting .300 in the major leagues with consistency and regularity, I'm not interested. Juan Rivera isn't hitting .300 with consistency and regularity, and now he's on the wrong side of 30 while coming off a broken leg.

    Don't get me wrong, there are other reasons besides Juan Rivera on why I don't want Juan Rivera. But Juan Rivera himself is far good enough reason alone.
    I'm not quite sure what you mean by the sentence before last but ok. I understand your point but we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether or not he can maintain a .300 BA, he doesn't K much and he hits with pretty good power, not sure what his LD% is but I'm guessing it's been pretty good. I'm not necc. sold on him being the #4 hitter but I tend to lean to yes he can. But more than that for the dollar amount that he alledgedly has been attached to (usually much less than 5 mill per) I am going after him strong to see if he can be more than what I should expect.
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  10. #39
    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: Reds have talked to agents for Baldelli, Rivera, plan to talk Burrell

    I wouldn't touch Baldelli with a 10 foot pole. You guys complain about Freel, Hairston, etc. not playing then you advocate bringing in Rocco Baldelli. Rivera would be fine as a bench guy, but I'm afraid he might not be very productive playing every day. I would hate to depend on a 30 year old that has never played a full season as a starter. With Pat Burrell, at least, you know what you are getting.

    There has to be better, younger, healthier options out there. I keep hearing how great the farm system is, but I am not seeing many fruits outside of Bruce, Votto, and Cueto. Walt seems to not have any faith in Dickerson and I can understand why. If all of these guys in AA are so great, let's see them, and spend the money on a shortstop and another starter. The best idea I have seen thus far is to move Edwin to left, trade for Adrian Beltre, and find a shortstop along the lines of Erick Aybar. If you want to win now, Randy Johnson might not be a bad guy to go after for a 1 year deal. I would imagine that he would be expensive, but could be worth it.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  11. #40
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    Re: Reds have talked to agents for Baldelli, Rivera, plan to talk Burrell

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    I wouldn't touch Baldelli with a 10 foot pole. You guys complain about Freel, Hairston, etc. not playing then you advocate bringing in Rocco Baldelli. Rivera would be fine as a bench guy, but I'm afraid he might not be very productive playing every day. I would hate to depend on a 30 year old that has never played a full season as a starter. With Pat Burrell, at least, you know what you are getting.

    There has to be better, younger, healthier options out there. I keep hearing how great the farm system is, but I am not seeing many fruits outside of Bruce, Votto, and Cueto. Walt seems to not have any faith in Dickerson and I can understand why. If all of these guys in AA are so great, let's see them, and spend the money on a shortstop and another starter. The best idea I have seen thus far is to move Edwin to left, trade for Adrian Beltre, and find a shortstop along the lines of Erick Aybar. If you want to win now, Randy Johnson might not be a bad guy to go after for a 1 year deal. I would imagine that he would be expensive, but could be worth it.
    FWIW, Baldelli just turned 27.
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  12. #41
    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: Reds have talked to agents for Baldelli, Rivera, plan to talk Burrell

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    FWIW, Baldelli just turned 27.
    I was referring to Rivera.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  13. #42
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Reds have talked to agents for Baldelli, Rivera, plan to talk Burrell

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    I wouldn't touch Baldelli with a 10 foot pole. You guys complain about Freel, Hairston, etc. not playing then you advocate bringing in Rocco Baldelli. Rivera would be fine as a bench guy, but I'm afraid he might not be very productive playing every day. I would hate to depend on a 30 year old that has never played a full season as a starter. With Pat Burrell, at least, you know what you are getting.

    There has to be better, younger, healthier options out there. I keep hearing how great the farm system is, but I am not seeing many fruits outside of Bruce, Votto, and Cueto. Walt seems to not have any faith in Dickerson and I can understand why. If all of these guys in AA are so great, let's see them, and spend the money on a shortstop and another starter. The best idea I have seen thus far is to move Edwin to left, trade for Adrian Beltre, and find a shortstop along the lines of Erick Aybar. If you want to win now, Randy Johnson might not be a bad guy to go after for a 1 year deal. I would imagine that he would be expensive, but could be worth it.
    Well unlike Freel and Hairston, Baldelli is actually good when he plays.

    Hairston and Baldelli are in the same boat for me. I'd love to have them both back, but not for more than a few mil on a 1 year deal.

  14. #43
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    Re: Reds have talked to agents for Baldelli, Rivera, plan to talk Burrell

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Well unlike Freel and Hairston, Baldelli is actually good when he plays.

    Hairston and Baldelli are in the same boat for me. I'd love to have them both back, but not for more than a few mil on a 1 year deal.
    Hairston was very good last year when he played and Freel was good for the Reds when he wasn't injured.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  15. #44
    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
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    Re: Reds have talked to agents for Baldelli, Rivera, plan to talk Burrell

    Doesn't Baldelli have a disease of some sorts that uses his energy up quicker than usual? No thanks.
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  16. #45
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    Re: Reds have talked to agents for Baldelli, Rivera, plan to talk Burrell

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    Hairston was very good last year when he played and Freel was good for the Reds when he wasn't injured.
    Not lately Freel wasn't, and he was expensive.

    As for Hairston, look at the last line of the previous post.


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