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Thread: Heisman Trophy

  1. #16
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    Re: Heisman Trophy

    Congrats to Bradford, he deserved it. Tebow got 309 1st place votes??? I just don't get it, he didn't have the numbers.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Heisman Trophy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burton View Post
    Congrats to Bradford, he deserved it. Tebow got 309 1st place votes??? I just don't get it, he didn't have the numbers.
    Tebow played some damn inspired ball after UF lost to Ole Miss.

    I'm not sure if anyone played better than him in the nation over that time span.

  4. #18
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    Re: Heisman Trophy

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    It's just my opinion that Bradford was the more outstanding player this year. And as to your point of arguing that DeMarco Murray was that team's MVP, I completely disagree. Bradford was the motor of that offense. I watched OU play several times this year and I watched Florida play a few as well. Bradford was the differene maker for OU moreso than Tebow, IMO. And you could probably argue that Harvin was as valuable as Tebow on the year as well. When it's all said and done, it's one person's opinions and biases versus others. I think Crabtree should have been in the top 3. I think there are other players that should have garnered some consideration as well, but were never even considered because they were never hyped in the pre-season, they didn't play QB, and they didn't play for a top 5 program.
    Here is what I see:
    -Oklahoma has 4 other offensive players in the top 100 players going into the current NFL draft (WR, TE, OG, OT), Florida has two (2 WR's), Texas 1 (OT).
    -Oklahoma has a history of producing ridiculous numbers with overrated QB's. Remember Josh Heupel? Jason White?
    -When Oklahoma puts up huge offensive numbers it is considered dominant. When Texas Tech puts up huge offensive numbers, it is considered quirky and produces system QB's. Again, remember Josh Heupel and Jason White? What is the difference? It says Oklahoma on the front of their jersey.
    -If Texas DB tackles Crabtree, then Colt McCoy wins the award. How is that right?
    -Upon further investigation, I think that Oklahoma's Offensive Line was their most valuable player/unit. Oklahoma can run the football (they are the best non-option rushing team in the country) and they kept Bradford upright. They lost to Texas because they couldn't run the ball, despite Bradford's 387 yards and 5 TD's.
    -As far as Harvin being Florida's MVP, they didn't need him to beat the #1 team in the country in the SEC title game, so I'm not sure that I buy that argument.
    -Here is my rational for Tebow. If I were building a team, I would pick Tebow 1, McCoy 2, and Bradford 3. Oklahoma is the perfect storm. Bradford is a great player, but he is a product of playing with an insane amount of talent. Put him on OSU and you're looking at a slightly better version of Todd Boeckman.
    Last edited by improbus; 12-15-2008 at 06:54 PM.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

  5. #19
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    Re: Heisman Trophy

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    Here is what I see:
    -Oklahoma has 4 other offensive players in the top 100 players going into the current NFL draft (WR, TE, OG, OT), Florida has two (2 WR's), Texas 1 (OT).
    -Oklahoma has a history of producing ridiculous numbers with overrated QB's. Remember Josh Heupel? Jason White?
    -When Oklahoma puts up huge offensive numbers it is considered dominant. When Texas Tech puts up huge offensive numbers, it is considered quirky and produces system QB's. Again, remember Josh Heupel and Jason White? What is the difference? It says Oklahoma on the front of their jersey.
    -If Texas DB tackles Crabtree, then Colt McCoy wins the award. How is that right?
    -Upon further investigation, I think that Oklahoma's Offensive Line was their most valuable player/unit. Oklahoma can run the football (they are the best non-option rushing team in the country) and they kept Bradford upright. They lost to Texas because they couldn't run the ball, despite Bradford's 387 yards and 5 TD's.
    -As far as Harvin being Florida's MVP, they didn't need him to beat the #1 team in the country in the SEC title game, so I'm not sure that I buy that argument.
    -Here is my rational for Tebow. If I were building a team, I would pick Tebow 1, McCoy 2, and Bradford 3. Oklahoma is the perfect storm. Bradford is a great player, but he is a product of playing with an insane amount of talent. Put him on OSU and you're looking at a slightly better version of Todd Boeckman.
    If I were building a team, I would probably avoid QBs from the big football factories in favor of a top QB from a school in a conference like the MAC. I think big conference QBs tend to be overrated. The BCS conferences produce great teams because they have the resources to recruit the biggest and best players on the OL and DL, which tend to make their QBs look better than they are. I hear the Ball State QB is pretty good.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  6. #20
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    Re: Heisman Trophy

    I appreciate your arguments, improbus. I don't think they're poor arguments or not well reasoned. i just see it differently. The Heisman trophy is probbsly the least objective award there is. So we both have our preferences.

    And to answer your last question, Tebow is not even in the top few QBs I'd choose as crazy as that may sound. I prefer more of the traditional style QB. I don't think Tebow would be anything special outside of a Florida type system. As I've said before, I think Tebow is a product of the system. Very talented - yes. But a dominant player in any system? Not in my opinion. That's just how I see it. It's not personal. I have nothing but respect for Tebow. But I don't see him in the same light some others do.
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  7. #21
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    Re: Heisman Trophy

    The Heisman is worse than a league MVP in baseball....

    They're both really bad popularity contests, based on stats that aren't consistent across the board....

    What did the Big 12 do this year? Score truckloads of points.

    What did the Big 12 not do this year? Play defense.

    So, combine good offenses, playing crappy defenses, and you see plenty of scoring, and inflated stats for your skill positions in the Big 12.

    Am I saying Bradford or McCoy or Harrell aren't good QBs? Absolutely not. FWIW, I think Harrell's the best of the bunch.

    However, if you put any of their respective teams in conferences that actually played D, and even with their immense talent, I don't think any of them wins the Heisman.

  8. #22
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    Re: Heisman Trophy

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    I appreciate your arguments, improbus. I don't think they're poor arguments or not well reasoned. i just see it differently. The Heisman trophy is probbsly the least objective award there is. So we both have our preferences.

    And to answer your last question, Tebow is not even in the top few QBs I'd choose as crazy as that may sound. I prefer more of the traditional style QB. I don't think Tebow would be anything special outside of a Florida type system. As I've said before, I think Tebow is a product of the system. Very talented - yes. But a dominant player in any system? Not in my opinion. That's just how I see it. It's not personal. I have nothing but respect for Tebow. But I don't see him in the same light some others do.
    I guess that I am always leery of buying too much into Oklahoma. They have shown themselves to be a paper tiger more often than not. I disagree that Tebow can't succeed in other systems. He's not Vince Young or Vick who completed around 50% of their passes. He is a career 66% passer and if given the same number of pass attempts as Bradford, he would have thrown for 4,150 yards. This season, Florida had better runners surrounding Tebow and they didn't need Tebow to do everything. He threw the ball almost 90 times less and ran 60 times less. That is not his fault.
    I'm not trying to rag on Bradford, but his numbers are as much opportunity as skill. I do think that this is the best year for college QB's in years. Between Tebow, Bradford, McCoy, Stafford, Daniel, Harrell, college FB has been blessed with some great signal callers. Now, if only the Big Ten could get a few....

    Finally, I just read that DeMarco Murray is out for the title game, so we might just get to see how much he meant to Oklahoma. I'm either going to look like a genius or a complete moron, which is nothing new.
    Last edited by improbus; 12-16-2008 at 06:30 PM.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero


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