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View Poll Results: Should Willy Tavares be a Red in 2009?

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  • Yes

    28 21.88%
  • No

    100 78.13%
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Thread: Willy Taveras

  1. #46
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras

    Walt also traded for Will Clark and Larry Walker in late season swindles.

    Those two guys put up monster numbers that carried them far into the playoffs and world series.

    Walt loves big hitters, and loves to bring them in as ringers when the season hangs in the balance.

    He LOVES great hitters......At least he USED to.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

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  3. #47
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras

    Quote Originally Posted by pahster View Post
    Are you sure? Could the lack of winning be related, perhaps, to the lack of quality pitching? Maybe?
    Last year, the Reds had an OPS+ of 93 and an ERA+ of 99. In other words, we had a crappy offense and league average pitching. We've lost 2 of our top 3 run producers from the 2008 offense (Dunn and Hairston). Our biggest loss on the pitching side was a middle reliever (Affeldt).

    Certainly your point is true if generically applied to the last decade. But given the current roster as of today, our pitching is stronger than our offense and frankly it's not really close.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  4. #48
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras

    Ok, seriously. I've read many posts now about Taveras and have seen comps to CPatt. A few have actually said (*out loud*) that they would prefer CPatt over Taveras. Is it really possible there's someone worse than Corey? I didn't think there was. If there is, and that seems to be up for debate, then why in the world would the Reds even consider this guy? That's frustrating.

    Why don't they just sign Hairston to platoon with Dickerson against lefties? It's not ideal, but it doesn't suck either. Spend the resources, money and talent, for a LF or SS, not a CF that brings the level of suckitude up a few notches in Cincy.
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

    www.kylevoska.com - Golfer? Check out my blog for golf tips.

  5. #49
    Something clever pahster's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Last year, the Reds had an OPS+ of 93 and an ERA+ of 99. In other words, we had a crappy offense and league average pitching. We've lost 2 of our top 3 run producers from the 2008 offense (Dunn and Hairston). Our biggest loss on the pitching side was a middle reliever (Affeldt).

    Certainly your point is true if generically applied to the last decade. But given the current roster as of today, our pitching is stronger than our offense and frankly it's not really close.
    Alexad's post seemed to be referencing Reds teams over the last several years. The idea that the losing was due to "hit 'em out of the park hitters" is what I was responding to. Last years hitters definitely did not perform well enough *cough*Patterson and Bako*cough*. I'm much more comfortable with the Reds' pitching right now than I am with their hitting.

    Also, now that I've reread his post, I think perhaps he should examine Jocketty's Cardinals teams again. They had a lot more than one power hitter on them.

  6. #50
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras

    Quote Originally Posted by Redhook View Post
    Ok, seriously. I've read many posts now about Taveras and have seen comps to CPatt. A few have actually said (*out loud*) that they would prefer CPatt over Taveras. Is it really possible there's someone worse than Corey? I didn't think there was.
    Career OPS+

    Patterson 79
    WT 72
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  7. #51
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras

    Quote Originally Posted by Redhook View Post
    Ok, seriously. I've read many posts now about Taveras and have seen comps to CPatt. A few have actually said (*out loud*) that they would prefer CPatt over Taveras. Is it really possible there's someone worse than Corey? I didn't think there was. If there is, and that seems to be up for debate, then why in the world would the Reds even consider this guy? That's frustrating.

    Why don't they just sign Hairston to platoon with Dickerson against lefties? It's not ideal, but it doesn't suck either. Spend the resources, money and talent, for a LF or SS, not a CF that brings the level of suckitude up a few notches in Cincy.
    If you could share your epiphany with every person you know, and every member of the Cincinnati media that would be ideal.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

  8. #52
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras

    The poll is alot closer then I thought it would be.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  9. #53
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras

    Quote Originally Posted by pahster View Post
    Last years hitters definitely did not perform well enough *cough*Patterson and Bako*cough*. I'm much more comfortable with the Reds' pitching right now than I am with their hitting.
    Exactly. The non pitchers on the team hit a combined .254/.328/.422 with Bako and Patterson in 5179 AB's.

    Take Bako and Patterson out of that equation and the non pitchers hit .261/.337/.434 in 4514 AB's. Those two were so terrible that they caused a 21 point drop in the teams non pitcher OPS.

  10. #54
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Career OPS+

    Patterson 79
    WT 72
    I've seen the stats and they are mind-boggling. Until I see it with my own eyes (I haven't see Taveras play enough) I won't believe there's a worse player than CPatt. If that unfortunate day comes true when Taveras dons a Reds uniform and I see first hand that he is worse than CPatt, I will probably have denounce my loyalty to the Redlegs.
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

    www.kylevoska.com - Golfer? Check out my blog for golf tips.

  11. #55
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    If you could share your epiphany with every person you know, and every member of the Cincinnati media that would be ideal.
    Done. But I have to warn you that common sense doesn't go over to well in this city.
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

    www.kylevoska.com - Golfer? Check out my blog for golf tips.

  12. #56
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras

    At 11pm, we're at 54-9 against. I'm waiting to hear from some of the unaccounted for polling precincts before deciding a winner.

    Vote early and vote often.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  13. #57
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras

    Quote Originally Posted by pahster View Post
    Alexad's post seemed to be referencing Reds teams over the last several years. The idea that the losing was due to "hit 'em out of the park hitters" is what I was responding to. Last years hitters definitely did not perform well enough *cough*Patterson and Bako*cough*. I'm much more comfortable with the Reds' pitching right now than I am with their hitting.

    Also, now that I've reread his post, I think perhaps he should examine Jocketty's Cardinals teams again. They had a lot more than one power hitter on them.
    Sorry if I took your quote out of context.

    For a thorough look at the Jocketty's Cards...

    http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...ight=Cardinals

    Enjoy.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  14. #58
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I think the Taveras controversy is starting to get a little played out.
    So, you have to choose between Taveras or Bradley.

    Is it WT, or MB?

  15. #59
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras

    Quote Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar View Post
    I'll admit to the YES. Deion Sanders was the last speedster I remember running the bases. I feel it could produce more runs for the ballclub and I think he could cover a lot of ground in CF. Walt has been rumored to have almost traded for him and was also mentioned to be one of the first to contact him once the Rockies non-tendered him (per Fay). If he can revert back to his 07 OBPs I am sold. I remember him covering all that ground in Houston with that huge CF.. I think he could be an average defender and that is exceptable.
    Deion couldn't steal 1B either, or find it with a map...

  16. #60
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras

    Quote Originally Posted by alexad View Post
    68 steals last year. 68 steals. 68 steals. We need someone to get on base and steal bases. Your lead off hitter is suppose to get on base and steal bases. His on base percentage may not be awesome, but come on, we have cried about not having a player with speed to play center field and lead off. Who else is there to get this job done that is still out there? THe days of an Eric Davis being out in centerfield to hit homeruns, steal bases and run like the wind are over.

    This man can steal bases and that is what I like in a lead off hitter. He is better in the field than Patterson.
    Just imagine how many bases Taveras could have swiped had he gotten on-base at an acceptable clip...


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