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Thread: Changes, changes, changes

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    Changes, changes, changes

    Some have lamented the facts that Jockety has not made a impact play of signing big star or making a trade for a big star. He certainly has changed things though since he became GM.

    The outfield has been replaced completely. With the exception of Hopper all of the Reds outfielders from opening day 2008 are gone. Currently with the exception of Freel none have a job right now. I am sure Griffey and Dunn will obtain contracts, but I don't think either will earn half of what they did last year.

    The catchers are also gone. I don't know if Ross has a contract yet, but I don't believe any of them will make half of what they did last year.

    Hattleburg is gone. He wasn't signed by anyone else.

    With the exception of Phillips,Votto and EE the Reds have completely retooled. true Gonzalez will be back at short after a year off due to injury. I had expected Turner to make some kind of splash, but that will have to be with Baltimore. I do expect him to make the Orioles out of ST, but I don't expect him to replace Roberts.

    Baseball is a buisness, and the purpose of buisness is to make money. With the economy like it is Jock may be making the right moves.

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    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Changes, changes, changes

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    I am sure Griffey and Dunn will obtain contracts, but I don't think either will earn half of what they did last year.
    Are you kidding? Dunn was worth every penny he got last season and I think the Cubs or Angels will give Dunn at least 10 million next season even considering these trying economic times.

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    Re: Changes, changes, changes

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Some have lamented the facts that Jockety has not made a impact play of signing big star or making a trade for a big star. He certainly has changed things though since he became GM.

    The outfield has been replaced completely. With the exception of Hopper all of the Reds outfielders from opening day 2008 are gone. Currently with the exception of Freel none have a job right now. I am sure Griffey and Dunn will obtain contracts, but I don't think either will earn half of what they did last year.

    The catchers are also gone. I don't know if Ross has a contract yet, but I don't believe any of them will make half of what they did last year.

    Hattleburg is gone. He wasn't signed by anyone else.

    With the exception of Phillips,Votto and EE the Reds have completely retooled. true Gonzalez will be back at short after a year off due to injury. I had expected Turner to make some kind of splash, but that will have to be with Baltimore. I do expect him to make the Orioles out of ST, but I don't expect him to replace Roberts.

    Baseball is a buisness, and the purpose of buisness is to make money. With the economy like it is Jock may be making the right moves.
    I don't want to trade away our minors or key components of our major league squad. I'd like to see them develop and see what we got.

    Having said that, I would have liked to have signed Randy Johnson to a 1 year deal for $8 million. Woulda been nice to have a solid lefty in the 5th spot of the rotation, at a reasonable price. Seems like other teams do deals like this and the Reds just twiddle their thumbs.
    Who's on first?

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    Re: Changes, changes, changes

    True it would have been nice to have signed Randy Johnson for 8 Million but he wanted to stay on West Coast and Cincinnati is not there.

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    Re: Changes, changes, changes

    Randy Johnson for 8 million is pretty goofy if you ask me. goofy bad.

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    Re: Changes, changes, changes

    Quote Originally Posted by BEETTLEBUG View Post
    True it would have been nice to have signed Randy Johnson for 8 Million but he wanted to stay on West Coast and Cincinnati is not there.
    Ding ding ding.

    Seems to me people have to remember that free agents and players with no trade clauses (Peavy et al.) have to WANT to come to Cincinnati. You can't just say, "We should've offered Player X the same contract that Team Y offered! We'd be so much better!"

    The phrase is, it takes two to tango. Ask Jimmy Bowden.
    I have a love-hate relationship with Albert Pujols. Mostly hate.

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    Re: Changes, changes, changes

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Some have lamented the facts that Jockety has not made a impact play of signing big star or making a trade for a big star. He certainly has changed things though since he became GM.

    The outfield has been replaced completely. With the exception of Hopper all of the Reds outfielders from opening day 2008 are gone. Currently with the exception of Freel none have a job right now. I am sure Griffey and Dunn will obtain contracts, but I don't think either will earn half of what they did last year.

    The catchers are also gone. I don't know if Ross has a contract yet, but I don't believe any of them will make half of what they did last year.

    Hattleburg is gone. He wasn't signed by anyone else.

    With the exception of Phillips,Votto and EE the Reds have completely retooled. true Gonzalez will be back at short after a year off due to injury. I had expected Turner to make some kind of splash, but that will have to be with Baltimore. I do expect him to make the Orioles out of ST, but I don't expect him to replace Roberts.

    Baseball is a buisness, and the purpose of buisness is to make money. With the economy like it is Jock may be making the right moves.
    Well said Flash.

    This team is much improved from ST-OD last year. I'm ready to start playing right now. We may not be the Yankees, but I'd much rather have young, hungry players, who hopefully remember the importance of fundamentals instead of how much money his broker can make him during this financial crisis.

    1. Taveras CF .285, 70 SB's
    2. BP 2nd .305, 37 SB's, 32 HR's
    3. Votto 1st .310, 35 HR's, 110 RBI's
    4. Edwin 3rd .275, 35 HR's, 120 RBI's
    5. Bruce RF .285, 38 HR's, 125 RBI's
    6. D'kerson/Hairstrom LF .280, 40 SB's combined
    7. Gonzo/Kepp SS .275, 80 RBI's combined
    8. Hern/Harrigan C .260, 20HR's, 60 RBI's combined

    Why worry about a RH bat when we have one. He just needs to step it up a bit. A real lead off man, BP can stop swinging for the fences, stress fundamentals all year, good defense up the middle, Votto and Bruce challenge each other all year.

    I think the fun has just begun. And then look at the pitching staff.

    1. Volquez
    2. Harang
    3. Cueto
    4. Arroyo
    5. Owings/Bailey/Rodriguez/Thompson

    Bullpen: Weathers, Rhodes, Bray, Burton, Lincoln, Cordero plus one or two of the guys who don't make the starting staff

    Bench: Hopper, Hairston, Castillo, Hanigan

    This is a young, fast, defense minded hungry group. Some good guys are missing too. Trade bait if they do well in ST? If they are looking good by June, you still have the ability to strengthen the team with out cleaning out the cupboards.

    I say it every year, and I said it last year for sure, but I think this team has more potential than any Reds team since 2000.

    GO REDS!!!

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    Re: Changes, changes, changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Red in Atl View Post
    Well said Flash.

    This team is much improved from ST-OD last year. I'm ready to start playing right now. We may not be the Yankees, but I'd much rather have young, hungry players, who hopefully remember the importance of fundamentals instead of how much money his broker can make him during this financial crisis.

    1. Taveras CF .285, 70 SB's
    2. BP 2nd .305, 37 SB's, 32 HR's
    3. Votto 1st .310, 35 HR's, 110 RBI's
    4. Edwin 3rd .275, 35 HR's, 120 RBI's
    5. Bruce RF .285, 38 HR's, 125 RBI's
    6. D'kerson/Hairstrom LF .280, 40 SB's combined
    7. Gonzo/Kepp SS .275, 80 RBI's combined
    8. Hern/Harrigan C .260, 20HR's, 60 RBI's combined

    Why worry about a RH bat when we have one. He just needs to step it up a bit. A real lead off man, BP can stop swinging for the fences, stress fundamentals all year, good defense up the middle, Votto and Bruce challenge each other all year.

    I think the fun has just begun. And then look at the pitching staff.

    1. Volquez
    2. Harang
    3. Cueto
    4. Arroyo
    5. Owings/Bailey/Rodriguez/Thompson

    Bullpen: Weathers, Rhodes, Bray, Burton, Lincoln, Cordero plus one or two of the guys who don't make the starting staff

    Bench: Hopper, Hairston, Castillo, Hanigan

    This is a young, fast, defense minded hungry group. Some good guys are missing too. Trade bait if they do well in ST? If they are looking good by June, you still have the ability to strengthen the team with out cleaning out the cupboards.

    I say it every year, and I said it last year for sure, but I think this team has more potential than any Reds team since 2000.

    GO REDS!!!
    Well, since you say they should be great every year, and it turns out that they're not, should you perhaps learn something from that experience? That "more potential" team last year ended up 74-88.

    For next season, you predict that every player in the Reds' lineup makes dramatic improvement, which would be fantastic, but isn't going to happen. Surely, you know that. Brandon Phillips is going to jump from a .261 BA to .310? Edwin is going to rocket from .251 and 68 RBIs to .275 and 120 RBIs. Votto will leap from 24 HRs and 84 RBIs to 35 HRs and 110 RBIs. Jay Bruce will be the Reds third potential MVP candidate with 38 HRs and 125 RBIs.

    In 2008, there were nine players in the NL with 110 RBIs or more, but according to your prognosis, the Reds alone will have three such players in 2009.

    At least you're used to being let down once the season actually begins.

  10. #9
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    Re: Changes, changes, changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Red in Atl View Post
    Well said Flash.

    This team is much improved from ST-OD last year. I'm ready to start playing right now. We may not be the Yankees, but I'd much rather have young, hungry players, who hopefully remember the importance of fundamentals instead of how much money his broker can make him during this financial crisis.

    1. Taveras CF .285, 70 SB's
    2. BP 2nd .305, 37 SB's, 32 HR's
    3. Votto 1st .310, 35 HR's, 110 RBI's
    4. Edwin 3rd .275, 35 HR's, 120 RBI's
    5. Bruce RF .285, 38 HR's, 125 RBI's
    6. D'kerson/Hairstrom LF .280, 40 SB's combined
    7. Gonzo/Kepp SS .275, 80 RBI's combined
    8. Hern/Harrigan C .260, 20HR's, 60 RBI's combined

    Why worry about a RH bat when we have one. He just needs to step it up a bit. A real lead off man, BP can stop swinging for the fences, stress fundamentals all year, good defense up the middle, Votto and Bruce challenge each other all year.

    I think the fun has just begun. And then look at the pitching staff.

    1. Volquez
    2. Harang
    3. Cueto
    4. Arroyo
    5. Owings/Bailey/Rodriguez/Thompson

    Bullpen: Weathers, Rhodes, Bray, Burton, Lincoln, Cordero plus one or two of the guys who don't make the starting staff

    Bench: Hopper, Hairston, Castillo, Hanigan

    This is a young, fast, defense minded hungry group. Some good guys are missing too. Trade bait if they do well in ST? If they are looking good by June, you still have the ability to strengthen the team with out cleaning out the cupboards.

    I say it every year, and I said it last year for sure, but I think this team has more potential than any Reds team since 2000.

    GO REDS!!!
    While your projected #'s might be a bit overly optimistic, I agree essentially that this will be a young, hungry team. I would add to the LF picture as a power platoon facing RH pitching, Dorn. One of the Enquirer guys made mention of all the Reds' top prospects, (Valaika, Frazier, etc.) Dorn was the only guy who could step to the plate at GABP in '09, and not be over-matched. (Against RH anyway).

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    Re: Changes, changes, changes

    Quote Originally Posted by CesarGeronimo View Post
    Well, since you say they should be great every year, and it turns out that they're not, should you perhaps learn something from that experience? That "more potential" team last year ended up 74-88.

    For next season, you predict that every player in the Reds' lineup makes dramatic improvement, which would be fantastic, but isn't going to happen. Surely, you know that. Brandon Phillips is going to jump from a .261 BA to .310? Edwin is going to rocket from .251 and 68 RBIs to .275 and 120 RBIs. Votto will leap from 24 HRs and 84 RBIs to 35 HRs and 110 RBIs. Jay Bruce will be the Reds third potential MVP candidate with 38 HRs and 125 RBIs.

    In 2008, there were nine players in the NL with 110 RBIs or more, but according to your prognosis, the Reds alone will have three such players in 2009.

    At least you're used to being let down once the season actually begins.
    Can you read? Looks to me like I said they had POTENTIAL every year, and the most POTENTIAL since 2000. Does anyone on this board not think the 2009 Reds have more POTENTIAL than any other team since 2000?

    Are the stats padded? Of FRAKKING course. I'm sitting around bored the Sunday after Christmas, dreaming of sun, baseball and my team overachieving. Why does that bother you so much? Why does hope for a better tomorrow bother you so much? And after looking at them again and looking at career numbers, they may be inflated, but they are doable by everyone of those guys.

    Please remember the name of this site. "REDSZONE. FOR REDS FANS BY REDS FANS". It's not for "For Wanna-bee sports writers by wanna-bee sports writers who have decided that their opinion is by far the best and only one that matters!"

    I've been a fan for 34 years, so I know a little about dissapointment. And I also know that ST is about optimism, the All-Star Break is about false hope for the Bengals and the trading deadline is about giving up for the season or completely giving up for the next 5 years. So spare me any lectures about what I should be expecting.

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    Re: Changes, changes, changes

    Red in Atl. - I share your hope for a better baseball future. I'd just like to see the Reds make moves that actually take them forward to that future. The Willy Taveras move is a step in the wrong direction, in my opinion, and having Walt suggest that he may not be able to bring in anybody better than Jerry Hairston for LF makes me think the 2009 team has a good chance of ending up with less potential than last year's 74-88 bunch.

    I know the Reds are holding onto their top prospects and I agree with that. But to remove the best hitter from a poor 2008 team and not at least replace him with another good bat will be a recipe for failure. I'm not into this whole idea that we'll think positively every offseason no matter what and we should just accept and praise whatever moves the front office makes. I think the fans should demand better than they've received over the past decade in Cincy and I'm infuriated that many are so complacent as to just buy into whatever management tells them. This is a great baseball city. It was a great baseball franchise as I was growing up. It can become that again if the team handles its youngsters wisely, spends some money to fill in the holes with good players and makes better decisions than hiring a bad hitter to hit leadoff.

    And when you start posting on here - like you did in the main Taveras thread - that "Taveras will hit .285 and steal 70 bases while playing gold defense" and yet "many will cry about that, too," you are implying that everyone should embrace your rosy outlook. Maybe I should be nicer in the way I say it and I'll try to do that, but just projecting that the team will be good because every player is going to be much better than last season is, to me, just a way of avoiding any serious conversation about what management needs to do to make the Reds better than their competitors. I think it's fair to point out that the team still has some significant weaknesses and the outfield is looking like it could be one of the biggest ones, which is disappointing given Walt's talk about finding a big righthanded bat being the No. 1 off-season priority.

  13. #12
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    Re: Changes, changes, changes

    This Reds team is just one right handed power hitting left fielder away from contending. With Burrell and Dye both sitting right in front of Walts face I cant understand why he doesnt jump at one of them. The Reds payroll with the way it is right now sit at around 66-67 million dollars, that is if Taveras is getting around 3 or 3 mil for next year. Walt said he expects the payroll to be in the 80 million to 85 million range. The Reds need 2 players 1 more to feel out the bench and a right handed power guy. That leaves around 13 to 18 million to get it done. I have to believe Walt can get something done with that money. If Harriston wants more than 2 mil. a year let him walk and sign Miles to take his place. trade for Dye and take on his money but only giv up one good prospect not 2 if you take all the money. Or sign Burrell to a 3 year 40 mil. contract. Those 2 moves would give the Reds a playoff caliber team with in there payroll budget.

    Lineup
    C-Hernandez 5 mil.
    1B- Votto 1 mil. but he not making quite that much
    2b- Phillips 5 mil.
    3B- EE probably get around 3 or 4 mil next year
    SS- Gonzo 5 mil.
    LF- Burrell or Dye 12 mil.
    CF- Taveras 2 or 3 mil hopefully no more
    RF- Bruce same as Votto
    thats around 34 mil. for the starting lineup

    rotation
    1) Harang 11 mil
    2) Volquez around 1 or 2 mil.
    3) Arroyo 9 mil.
    4) Cueto 1 mil or under
    5) Owings under a million
    thats about 23 mil. for a pretty darn good rotation

    bull pen
    CL- Cordero 12 mil.
    Burton 2 mil probably
    Weathers 2 mil probably
    Lincoln 1.5 mil for this year
    Masset or Bailey or someone under a million
    Bray about a million
    RHodes 2 mil.
    thats 21 million for a solid pen

    Bench
    Keppinger 1 mil.
    Hopper under a million probably
    Dickerson about half a million
    Hannigan same as Dickerson
    Say Harriston signs for 2 million
    thats 5 or 6 million for the bench

    Overall a payroll of around 83 million. Walt can amke it work but will he? If he does the Reds would field a pretty good team.

  14. #13
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    Re: Changes, changes, changes

    I think I agree with everybody here. I am optimistic about the season, but it is mostly because of the pitching staff. The glaring hole is obviously the outfield, especially when you compare it to last season. Going into spring training last year, the outfield was Dunn-Freel-Griffey with Patterson and Hopper as the extra guys. Going in this year, it will be Dickerson/mystery LF-Taveras-Bruce with Hopper and another question mark. That's a young, unproven group in three positions that have historically been vital to the Reds' offensive success.

    Do I think Bruce can break out and have a good-great year? Yes. Do I think Taveras can contribute as a league-average center fielder? Yes. Do I think Walt can still sign an impact left fielder to solidify the cleanup spot? Yes. But those three are all big ifs and, in my opinion, crucial to the Reds contending this year.

    This is a problem that would have arisen even if Wayne Krivsky were still the GM. Walt hasn't done anything wrong that got us into this mess (although I may sing a different tune after watching Taveras for a month or so). I still believe that he will field the best team possible in 2009 while looking at 2010 as THE year.

    That said, I REALLY want to make the playoffs this season.

  15. #14
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    Re: Changes, changes, changes

    No to Burrell, we might as well bring back Dunn, basically the same player with the same issues, one is a right handed and one is left handed. As much back and forth bantering as there was on this board over Dunn, I don't want to see it come back with Burrell.

  16. #15
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    Re: Changes, changes, changes

    one change i would like to see is us sticking with a lineup for weeks straight.....Reds always seem to have a rotation at one position can we just pick 8 guys and go with it.....


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