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Thread: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

  1. #436
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    Still no idea what this is costing the Reds?

    (Cue the jokes about "a playoff birth.")
    Their dignity.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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  3. #437
    Member cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    I haven't read through all of this thread so some of what I will say has probably been said.
    I think signing a CF to bat leadoff was one of the least of the Reds needs. To me Dickerson was just fine although I know he had just short stay last season. I hope Taveras works out but I'm very skeptical. His numbers dropped a lot last season. Usually when this type of players numbers start dropping it turns into a sharp decline. Also it doesn't matter how much he gets on base if the Reds don't have anyone to drive him in on a consistent basis. Where's that big bat to play LF? If the Reds don't get that then 2009 will be very much like 2008. There's still some bats available out there but I'm starting to sense the Reds are out of the loop on getting any of them.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

  4. #438
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    So...who IS that answer then? Who out there on the free agent market is there this year that is the answer to our problems?

    *waits patiently*



    I fully agree with many here that Taveras should not be leading off. I think that's fairly obvious. But I've got no problem at all with his defense, his speed or his hitting for that matter. I'm not expecting him to be a slugger. Heck, I'm not even expecting him to be handed the CF starting job. The results of ST will determine that. Jocketty is in charge or acquiring the players...Baker is in charge of who plays and where. If Jocketty is going to be taking over who bats where and where players play...then he needs to dump the manager whoever he is. And to be clear, this isn't Dusty bashing either. Other than his batting orders and his choice of starters in the first half, I didn't really have much of a problem with Baker. But to be fair, he didn't have many other options did he?

    I think too many people here are assuming that Taveras will start in CF and lead off simply because of what Walt said. If asked again, I bet he'll say it's Dusty's decision and that decision will be made after ST.
    WOW! That's just incredible denial, IMO.

    Just WOW!

    Rem

  5. #439
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    I'm not sure I watched the same season as you did in 2008.
    Votto over Hatteberg
    Hanigan over Bako/Javy/Ross
    Bruce over Junior
    Dickerson, Janish, Rosales and a few others also got shots.

    With the pitching staff he handled the kids quite well IMO and he didn't favor the vets over the kids. Cueto, Volquez, Ramirez, Herrera, Roenicke, Thompson and several others all got thier fair share of time on the bump. And other than that one SD 18 inning game, I didn't see him abuse any pitcher.

    Other than a few complaints, I was happy with how Dusty handled things with what he had to work with.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  6. #440
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    or be around .300
    So, you think Jay Bruce sucks?
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  7. #441
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by remdog View Post
    WOW! That's just incredible denial, IMO.

    Just WOW!

    Rem
    How so? Where did YOU see Walt state that Taveras is being handed the starting CF/leadoff job? When did you see Walt make out the lineup? When did you see Walt make a statement of anything but support for Dusty? And lastly, when did you see Walt make a statement that this was his last move of the offseason?

    I'm sure Jocketty has some influence and input on the starting positions but I'm also sure that he'll leave the final decision in Dusty's hands.

    I take it you disagree?
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  8. #442
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    So, you think Jay Bruce sucks?
    his OBP was barely over .310 last year. Someone said he could be around 330, I just pointed out it could be ~300 just as easily. Kid has some pop but is seriously lacking in plate discipline at this point, however, he has time on his side.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  9. #443
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Votto over Hatteberg
    Hanigan over Bako/Javy/Ross
    Bruce over Junior
    Dickerson, Janish, Rosales and a few others also got shots.
    Say what?

    Junior was traded. Bruce was the top prospect in baseball anyway.

    Hanigan was a late-season call up.

    Dickerson was also a late season call up and Janish was called up when Kepp broke his kneecap.

    Rosales had 30 plate appearances as a late-season call up.

  10. #444
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    I will say 2 good things about Willie Taveras:

    1. He has led the majors in infield hits since 2005

    2. He led the majors in SB and SB Pct.(68 of 75) last year.

    All that being said, it is a terrible signing. He simply is not good at scoring runs, which is what you need out of a leadoff man. We only gave Patterson 1 year. I don't think it is a given that he will be given 600 ABs, however. If he turns out to be the 2009 version of Patterson, he will lose the starting job the way Patterson did. I won't jump off the bridge just yet, but I am not pleased at all.

  11. #445
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    How so? Where did YOU see Walt state that Taveras is being handed the starting CF/leadoff job? When did you see Walt make out the lineup? When did you see Walt make a statement of anything but support for Dusty? And lastly, when did you see Walt make a statement that this was his last move of the offseason?

    I'm sure Jocketty has some influence and input on the starting positions but I'm also sure that he'll leave the final decision in Dusty's hands.

    I take it you disagree?

    I agree with Rem. (Wow)


    The more you try to defend this deal, the worse you make your case sound.

  12. #446
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    How so? Where did YOU see Walt state that Taveras is being handed the starting CF/leadoff job? When did you see Walt make out the lineup? When did you see Walt make a statement of anything but support for Dusty? And lastly, when did you see Walt make a statement that this was his last move of the offseason?

    I'm sure Jocketty has some influence and input on the starting positions but I'm also sure that he'll leave the final decision in Dusty's hands.

    I take it you disagree?
    No, I don't disagree---I vehemently disagree. Throughout this whole thread you've been presented with evidence that your position is not likely to prevail. Now, you turn a blind eye to what has been said by Jockety and what Baker has done in the past. (famous shrug) You continue to ignore both. That is the definition of a naive person.

    You're certainly welcome to continue on this path but don't be surprised if no one gives creadence to your opinion.

    Rem

  13. #447
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    Say what?

    Junior was traded. Bruce was the top prospect in baseball anyway.

    Hanigan was a late-season call up.

    Dickerson was also a late season call up and Janish was called up when Kepp broke his kneecap.

    Rosales had 30 plate appearances as a late-season call up.
    I'm aware of those things. But other than Rosales, I certainly didn't see any hesitation on Dusty's part to play the kids and to even start them. Hanigan was getting starts over Bako/Javy. Regardless of what time of the year it was, he did. Same for several others. I didn't see any kids languishing on the bench under Dusty (except Rosales for some unknown reason).
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  14. #448
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    From Walt Jocketty 12.27
    Saturday, December 27, 2008, 05:12 PM EST [Reds]

    Just got off the phone with Walt Jocketty about Taveras and some other things.

    On whether this signifies a change in the Reds' philosophy, going with a speed guy and not really replacing some of the big bats that left: "It’s more of what was available for us and what we had to do to improve the club. Our goal was to build on our pitching and improve our defense which helps our pitching. We feel if we had some offense with speed and it’ll generate enough runs to win some games."

    On Taveras' terrible 07: "I think last year was the aberration, I base that a lot on Jamie Quirk who was with Willy the last two years. He saw him in ‘07 and he changed his approach. He has to use his speed to get on base and create havoc."

    Jocketty said he thought Taveras "was trying to change his approach in Coors Field. He did not bunt as much last year."

    With Bruce in right, Taveras in center, what about left: "At the present it’s Dickerson and Hopper and whatever else we end up doing."

    As for those other things...

    Jerry Hairston: "I talked to them before Christmas." Jocketty said he still would hope to sign Hairston, and he could be in the left field mix -- "We’re still trying to get Hairston, we’ll have a different look on our club, but we still have guys like Votto, Bruce, Phillips, Encarnacion and even Hernandez with power."

    Pat Burrell: "We haven’t talked to them at all for a while. We’re going to hold back and see what else happens."

    Rocco Baldelli: "The health is a big issue, his durability and how much he’ll play. We’ll continue to look."

    The Yankees outfield glut (Nick Swisher and Xavier Nady): "We’ve had some discussions, I wouldn’t say anything's close."

    Barry Bonds/Sammy Sosa: "I don't think so."

    http://www.thelotd.com/ctrent/blog
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  15. #449
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    How so? Where did YOU see Walt state that Taveras is being handed the starting CF/leadoff job? When did you see Walt make out the lineup?
    From the Reds.com article:

    The Reds now have four outfielders on their 40-man roster in Taveras, right fielder Jay Bruce, Chris Dickerson and Norris Hopper. If they can't add the power hitter they're looking for, Dickerson and Hopper could platoon in left field.
    "With Bruce and Taveras, we have two of our outfield spots filled," Jocketty said. "We'd like to add another hitter, but if we don't, we have good pitching and defense and speed. We could find ways to manufacture runs without a big RBI guy."
    To me, these excerpts offer all but direct evidence that Willy Taveras is the starting CF and leadoff hitter on your 2009 Cincinnati Reds. What's more, if Walt doesn't sign another OF, we can look forward to a Hopper-Dickerson platoon in left!

    Awe. some.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  16. #450
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    I'm aware of those things. But other than Rosales, I certainly didn't see any hesitation on Dusty's part to play the kids and to even start them. Hanigan was getting starts over Bako/Javy. Regardless of what time of the year it was, he did. Same for several others. I didn't see any kids languishing on the bench under Dusty (except Rosales for some unknown reason).
    Bako/Valentin/Ross logged over 650 plate appearances. Hanigan had 89 PA's and many of those came after Ross was let go and Javy and Bako continued to be Javy and Bako (really bad).


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