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View Poll Results: Grade Walt

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105. You may not vote on this poll
  • A-Amazing Job

    6 5.71%
  • B-Really Ok job

    18 17.14%
  • C-Average

    39 37.14%
  • D-Need improvement, quick

    38 36.19%
  • F-Fire him yesterday before signing WT

    4 3.81%
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Thread: Walt Jocketty Poll Time

  1. #151
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty Poll Time

    From a BP chat yesterday

    Waker (Brooklyn): I've heard from a very credible source (i.e., front office) that the Yankees had a deal in place with the Reds: Francisco Cordero for Xavier Nady (killed by the Reds' owner). Should the Yankees revisit that trade and plug in a different name to help solve their bullpen issues? They could go Mets-style and us Cordero as the 8th inning guy
    If this is true, my opinion of Castellini just dropped considerably. Getting Cordero's contract off the books would have been a big win in and of itself. Adding a legitimate, if not ideal, bat in LF would have been icing on the cake. If Jocketty is getting shut down by ownership, presumably because Cast thought it would have been perceived as a salary dump and that fans would have been upset, then I to give Jocketty a bit more slack.

    Owners really need to realize that they aren't GMs and with rare exception, fans show up to cheer for the names on the front of the jersey, not the names on the back. Let your GM build a winning team and the fans will show.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  3. #152
    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty Poll Time

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    From a BP chat yesterday



    If this is true, my opinion of Castellini just dropped considerably. Getting Cordero's contract off the books would have been a big win in and of itself. Adding a legitimate, if not ideal, bat in LF would have been icing on the cake. If Jocketty is getting shut down by ownership, presumably because Cast thought it would have been perceived as a salary dump and that fans would have been upset, then I to give Jocketty a bit more slack.

    Owners really need to realize that they aren't GMs and with rare exception, fans show up to cheer for the names on the front of the jersey, not the names on the back. Let your GM build a winning team and the fans will show.

    I don't think that Walt would work for Cast if he was going to overrule him on major trades like this reported one.
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.

  4. #153
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty Poll Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    You can't tell me you wouldn't like this lineup better:


    Furcal SS
    EE 3B
    Votto 1B
    Dye LF
    Bruce RF
    Phillips 2B
    Hernandez C
    Dickerson CF

    Furcal would have been expensive, sure. But how much are we paying Tavaras/Hairston/Lincoln? These signings were all unnecessary.

    I understand not wanting to give up Homer for Dye. However, I'm tired of taking the "wait and see their potential route." It simply has not worked for the Reds. I think Bailey is at best a #3-4 starter in the MLB, and we could have had Dye for this season and next. Expensive? Yes. However, with those two bats in the lineup, this team just made itself a contender in the central without giving up anyone from their rotation. That would lead to more butts in the seats, and more money to fit the payroll.
    Of course I would have liked that lineup much better than the one being run out in Cincy on a daily basis. But I would like it even more if you place Furcal with Hanley Ramirez. Back to your lineup. Furcal would have been a huge risk for the Reds to sign. 3 years $30M to a SS who missed almost all of last season with a bad back. I doubt Furcal would have signed that contract in Cincinnati. LA is a WS contender this season and also has a much higher hispanic population.

    Dye should have an expiring contract, he has an option year left, at $12M for this season. He would be a one year rental but at what cost? I doubt it was just Homer because I think the Reds would have pulled the trigger on that move. It probably was Homer + another prospect but that is just my thinking.

    Dye's contract I wouldn't have a problem with. It is expiring and it won't have any long term effects on the club. Furcal on the other hand could have some serious repercussions. Would he produce for the full length of his contract. Would that contract hinder the clubs efforts to extend Votto, Bruce, or Cueto? The money spent isn't in a vacuum and the reality is the Reds aren't able to swallow many big, unproductive contracts.

  5. #154
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty Poll Time

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    From a BP chat yesterday



    If this is true, my opinion of Castellini just dropped considerably. Getting Cordero's contract off the books would have been a big win in and of itself. Adding a legitimate, if not ideal, bat in LF would have been icing on the cake. If Jocketty is getting shut down by ownership, presumably because Cast thought it would have been perceived as a salary dump and that fans would have been upset, then I to give Jocketty a bit more slack.

    Owners really need to realize that they aren't GMs and with rare exception, fans show up to cheer for the names on the front of the jersey, not the names on the back. Let your GM build a winning team and the fans will show.
    Does anyone know "Waker" from Brooklyn? Is he in the know?

  6. #155
    Member durl's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty Poll Time

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Here's Taveras: .242/.329/.306;

    Here's the average CFer for mlb so far: .265/.346/.430;

    An OBP of .329 is below average.
    What's the average salary for CF this year? I'm curious where Taveras fits in the range.

  7. #156
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty Poll Time

    Quote Originally Posted by durl View Post
    What's the average salary for CF this year? I'm curious where Taveras fits in the range.
    Does it really matter?

    Value engineering has nothing to do with actual winning. If Tavares is going to play he needs to play well, no matter what he costs.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  8. #157
    Member ochre's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty Poll Time

    This team needs its Greg Vaughn.
    4009



  9. #158
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty Poll Time

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Does it really matter?

    Value engineering has nothing to do with actual winning. If Tavares is going to play he needs to play well, no matter what he costs.
    Yep.

    Especially with the way arbitration and free agency work, average salary is a virtually meaningless number.

    Here's one way to think of it.
    - A replacement level team would win ~50 games.
    - To buy a marginal win in free agency costs ~$4.5M.
    - Given an $80M payroll, you can afford only ~16 marginal wins through free agency.
    - To buy a 90+ win team in free agency would require a payroll pushing $180M..

    Obviously this is grossly simplified, but the point is that every team this side of New York has to have cost efficiencies through underpriced pre-arb and arb players. Simply getting average production at average price leaves the Reds south of .500. The Reds reality is they have about $80M to build a 90 win squad. If they're spending that money and not putting enough talent on the field, that's a problem. The Reds calculus of what investments make sense is specific to their circumstance. The question with Taveras is whether his marginal cost justifies his marginal production compared to other internal solutions.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 04-29-2009 at 02:31 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  10. #159
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty Poll Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    You can't tell me you wouldn't like this lineup better:


    Furcal SS
    EE 3B
    Votto 1B
    Dye LF
    Bruce RF
    Phillips 2B
    Hernandez C
    Dickerson CF

    Furcal would have been expensive, sure. But how much are we paying Tavaras/Hairston/Lincoln? These signings were all unnecessary.

    I understand not wanting to give up Homer for Dye. However, I'm tired of taking the "wait and see their potential route." It simply has not worked for the Reds. I think Bailey is at best a #3-4 starter in the MLB, and we could have had Dye for this season and next. Expensive? Yes. However, with those two bats in the lineup, this team just made itself a contender in the central without giving up anyone from their rotation. That would lead to more butts in the seats, and more money to fit the payroll.
    I think that it is clear from this homestand's attendance figures, that a better team would not put butts in the seats. Even if they doubled the attendance from these last few games, it still would be pathetic numbers.

    The economy is hurting everyone and everyone is cutting back. The Yankees just announced that they are reducing prices on their tickets for a brand new stadium.

    Money is a huge issue this year and you just can't ignore it. No one is spending more money on payroll this year, not even the Yankees. Even with all their big signings, their payroll is less than it was last year.

    I would have loved to have either Furcal or Dye, but it is clear that the Reds just could not afford any big salaries this year.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  11. #160
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty Poll Time

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    I would have loved to have either Furcal or Dye, but it is clear that the Reds just could not afford any big salaries this year.
    is it?

    Or is it clear that not operating in the red is higher priority than winning on the field?
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  12. #161
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty Poll Time

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    is it?

    Or is it clear that not operating in the red is higher priority than winning on the field?
    Cast had no problems spending money to chase a championship in his first few years, he had no problem operating in the red then, probably to a fault.

    Jocketty was all go on all fronts to get a big bat for the middle of the lineup, talked about it in every interview, then, abruptly, he said he couldn't afford one.

    Every beat reporter, reported that the Reds were going to increase payroll to over $80M, then the Reds made the announcement that they were cutting payroll.

    Only Cast knows what his true motivations are, but facts and logic point to the economy being the number one factor in the Reds decreasing their payroll.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  13. #162
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty Poll Time

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    From a BP chat yesterday



    If this is true, my opinion of Castellini just dropped considerably. Getting Cordero's contract off the books would have been a big win in and of itself. Adding a legitimate, if not ideal, bat in LF would have been icing on the cake. If Jocketty is getting shut down by ownership, presumably because Cast thought it would have been perceived as a salary dump and that fans would have been upset, then I to give Jocketty a bit more slack.

    Owners really need to realize that they aren't GMs and with rare exception, fans show up to cheer for the names on the front of the jersey, not the names on the back. Let your GM build a winning team and the fans will show.
    Cordero has a full no trade clause for 2009. I doubt he'd want to go somewhere where he wouldne be closing.

  14. #163
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty Poll Time

    I have yet to see any evidence the Reds have lost money since Castellini has been running the team.

    The only fact that I can see is that the Reds have decreased their payroll. My conclusion is simply that there are priorities higher than "the losing stops now".
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  15. #164
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty Poll Time

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    I have yet to see any evidence the Reds have lost money since Castellini has been running the team.

    The only fact that I can see is that the Reds have decreased their payroll. My conclusion is simply that there are priorities higher than "the losing stops now".
    Its a privately held company. The Reds don't have to show anyone their books to anyone except for the handful of owners. So neither you or I have seen evidence that Castellini has made or lost money while he has been running the team.

  16. #165
    Member durl's Avatar
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    Re: Walt Jocketty Poll Time

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Does it really matter?

    Value engineering has nothing to do with actual winning. If Taveras is going to play he needs to play well, no matter what he costs.
    I thought it mattered because he was being compared to other CFs in the majors and one of the biggest gripes against Taveras was the amount of his contract.

    I don't know if he's cheap or not, I just thought the question was relative since there's a lot talk about how the Reds need good bang-for-the-buck for each player they put on the field.


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