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Thread: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

  1. #286
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    nothing to see here
    Chapman to the rotation!!!! Do it already!!!!

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  3. #287
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Okay. What the hell is your point there? If you get a lot of walks you'll have a high OBP? Thanks for the enlightenment. Or are you trying to compare Taveras to those top 10 BB guys? I certainly don't recall anybody saying Taveras was an above average player at the plate.
    So he's not above average at the plate.

    Why the hell would anyone want him leading off then?

    My point is simple. Taveras cannot sustain a high OBP, a prerequisite for being a leadoff hitter without gaudy BB totals.

    Taveras will never BB more than 40 times. He will K anywhare from 80-100 times and not walk more than 40. Add to the mix his COMPLETE lack of power and you have a recipe for a pretty bad ball player.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  4. #288
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    From Fay's blog:


    Here's a little bit of Willy Taveras from a conference call (I believe he was in the security line at the Miami airport at the time):

    --"It's a young team. I think I fit in well. I'll come in and play hard. I'm happy to play for Dusty (Baker)."

    --"It's an opportunity to play every day, no matter what happened the day before."
    --"A couple of team were interested. The best situation was with the Reds. i really like playing in the Central division. I feel lucky to play for Dusty."

    --"I got a call from agent (shortly after he was non-tendered by Colorado). He said the Reds were really interested."

    --On Jamie Quirk, Reds special assistant: "Jamie knows me really well. He always tells me to stay on top of my game. He knows what kind of talent I have."

    --On Dusty Baker: "I've heard from plenty of guys that he lets you do what you do well. I'm looking forward to playing for him."

    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  5. #289
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    The Reds lineup could not hit right handed pitching last year, the pitching where they get the most AB/PA against.

    Willy Taveras
    2008 vs. Right .245 .303 .291 .594
    2007 vs. Right .304 .351 .357 .708
    2006 vs. Right .285 .338 .345 .683
    2005 vs. Right .312 .344 .351 .695

    Ramon Hernandez
    2008 vs. Right .245 .305 .421 .726
    2007 vs. Right .261 .334 .366 .700
    2006 vs. Right .270 .324 .444 .768
    2005 vs. Right .304 .333 .464 .797

    Anyone see any improvement for the Reds lineup/batters against the right handed pitchers?
    Someone show me, I just canít see it. Plus Baker we have seen is the master strategist.

  6. #290
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    From Fay

    Walt Jocketty on the Willy Taveras signing:

    --"He fills a couple of needs. He gives us very good defense in center field, and he's potentially a very good leadoff man."

    Jocketty sadi in order to do that Taveras has to get his on-base percentage close to .367 like it was in the 2007, rather than the .308 it was last season: "He needs to get back to way he was swinging the bat and getting on base a couple of years ago. Jamie Quirk, who's with us now was with Willy in Colorado, feels like Willy can get back to that."
    .

  7. #291
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Sir Charles

    Who had the better season (these are real players from a real past season)?

    1. .324/.381/.534 669 PA's
    2. .266/.388/.569 681 PA's.

    It's actually a trick question. They had essentially the same season, they just went about it in different ways.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  8. #292
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    My only point was that players with walk-based OBP still get slumps both in regards to hits AND walks.
    What you're not getting is that high-IsoD players do not turn into production black holes as often as low-IsoD players. That's the point original point and you've done nothing to effectively contest it. Because Taveras has so little plate discipline, he's a complete negative when the hits aren't falling. That's not the case with high-IsoD players, because they have a highly-developed secondary on-base skill set.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch thatís over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.Ē
    --Ted Williams

  9. #293
    Member top6's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Just wanted to pile on and say this is a horrible and embarassing (for the people who work for Reds - not for me) signing.

    This:

    -"It's an opportunity to play every day, no matter what happened the day before."
    also scares the crap out of me; very reminiscent of the Arroyo comment when he signed about how there is no pressure to win here. (Note, the Reds have not won since that time.)

    Nothing has changed and nothing ever will. This is just a horrible, horrible organization, with 3 owners in a row who either don't get it or don't care about winning. Pretty sad state of affairs when Marge Schott is the best Cincinnati sports owner in almost 2 decades (since Paul Brown died).

  10. #294
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Something tells me that a deal for Dye was worked out but got shot down by Cast because of money. Walt's going to have to get used to working in relative poverty. Not sure this is the way to do it, though. I think it's likely that we'll see another salary get dumped before any offense gets added.

    Bronson Arroyo I'm lookin' at you.

  11. #295
    Member top6's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Walks are a pause in a rally...a hit builds the momentum emotionally.
    So your response to the mountain of statistics and numbers thrown at you is that walks are not as good as hits because walks are less emotional?

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Losing Dunn & Griffey hurts in the HR department, but the improvement of the kids and the improved defense should balance things out considerably I think.
    Even if you are right, and the improved speed and defense does "balance ... out" the loss of Griffey and Dunn's offensive production, doesn't that mean the Reds have a losing season again? They need to replace Griffey and Dunn AND add something else.

  12. #296
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by top6 View Post
    So your response to the mountain of statistics and numbers thrown at you is that walks are not as good as hits because walks are less emotional?


    Even if you are right, and the improved speed and defense does "balance ... out" the loss of Griffey and Dunn's offensive production, doesn't that mean the Reds have a losing season again? They need to replace Griffey and Dunn AND add something else.
    They don't need to "replace" Griffey. He was a sinkhole last season when you consider his offense measured against his defense. I think the biggest single improvement everyone will notice next season is Griffey being replaced by Bruce.

  13. #297
    Member top6's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Something tells me that a deal for Dye was worked out but got shot down by Cast because of money. Walt's going to have to get used to working in relative poverty. Not sure this is the way to do it, though. I think it's likely that we'll see another salary get dumped before any offense gets added.

    Bronson Arroyo I'm lookin' at you.
    I don't know about this. I have a lot of smart Sox fans friends, and none of them were excited about the Dye trade. I don't think the Reds really had anything that they wanted (that the Reds were willing to give away, that is).

    I loathe the Taveras signing for a lot of reasons, but I am not sure there is that much they could have done. Who is an outfielder they could have signed? It actually would have been nice - for me - if they had done nothing instead of something - like this - that is really just a PR move, so the casual fan (and the Allen Cutlers of the world) can say they are doing something.

    In any event, I certainly hope you are wrong that he needs to shed salary, but in this economy anything is possible and I honestly have no idea where most of Castelinis's money was made (and whether he is in serious trouble).

  14. #298
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    If Willy T gets 650-700 PA's in the leadoff spot in 2008, it's going to be a net loss of somewhere around 10-15 runs over last year.

    That negates the positive of the Hernandez for Bako tradeoff.

    Votto might have 5-10 more runs in him over 08.

    That's going to be a lot of pressure on Bruce and whomever plays LF.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  15. #299
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    I'd have preferred to gamble on Dickerson in CF. Let one of the kids win the LF/1B/3B job and find a real SS.

    Instead we'll get to watch a certainty in CF (certain to be bad), gamble on Dickerson in LF and not address SS at all.


    yippee.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  16. #300
    Member Reds Fanatic's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    If this team goes into next season with Taveras as the everyday CF and Hairston as the everyday LF this could be one of the worst offensive teams the Reds have had in a long time. It is amazing this team once again fails to realize the value of OBP in a leadoff hitter.


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