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Thread: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

  1. #301
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Something tells me that a deal for Dye was worked out but got shot down by Cast because of money. Walt's going to have to get used to working in relative poverty. Not sure this is the way to do it, though. I think it's likely that we'll see another salary get dumped before any offense gets added.

    Bronson Arroyo I'm lookin' at you.
    I think you are right about the OF market and Walt knows it. $11 Million for Dye in 2009 is going to be way over-priced and dealing prospects be it Bailey or anyone else for the right to pay it is nuts. The problem is that lower prices means that Dollars become less of a differentiation point for players choosing teams. The difference in dollars at lower dollars isn't as big. That means players will use other factors (winning, proximity to home, etc.) and the Reds lose there as well. This team will still need to pay through the nose to get a difference maker. I agree that the budget has been tightened and I just don't see the Reds getting anyone substantial. I think Hairston may be the best the team can do if they can even get him. Maybe a deal for somebody like a Luke Scott or a FRed Lewis could be in the works. I still think EdE (or Votto) may be the best option. Get a corner IF.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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  3. #302
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    I'd have preferred to gamble on Dickerson in CF. Let one of the kids win the LF/1B/3B job and find a real SS.

    Instead we'll get to watch a certainty in CF (certain to be bad), gamble on Dickerson in LF and not address SS at all.


    yippee.
    Kind of how I feel.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  4. #303
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I think Hairston may be the best the team can do if they can even get him. .
    Hairston's last 589 AB's.

    2006-08
    .254/.315/.366, .681 OPS (and yes, this includes 2008 numbers)
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  5. #304
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Whelp, I just found out about the news. The Reds can be a real killjoy.
    What if this wasn't a rhetorical question?

    All models are wrong. Some of them are useful.

  6. #305
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Hairston's last 589 AB's.

    2006-08
    .254/.315/.366, .681 OPS (and yes, this includes 2008 numbers)
    I know. Ick.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  7. #306
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: From Fay

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    Jocketty sadi in order to do that Taveras has to get his on-base percentage close to .367 like it was in the 2007, rather than the .308 it was last season: "He needs to get back to way he was swinging the bat and getting on base a couple of years ago. Jamie Quirk, who's with us now was with Willy in Colorado, feels like Willy can get back to that."
    Also from Jocketty:

    "He (Taveras) needs to bunt more and keep the ball on the ground and get some infield hits. I donít know if he tried to hit home runs, or what, but Jamie think he changed his approach and that we can get him back on track."

    Great. So a guy who already had a chance to "fix" Taveras over a full season now thinks he can "fix" the guy in a new location. Here's Taveras over his time with Colorado:

    2008 GB%: 51.5%
    2007 GB%: 51.5%

    2008 FB%: 28.4%
    2007 FB%: 31.6%

    2008 IFH%: 10.3%
    2007 IFH%: 10.9%

    2008 BUH%: 40.7%
    2007 BUH%: 64.4%

    One of those things is not like the other...but most of those things are almost exactly the same...

    IFH% speaks to the percentage of Infield Hits versus total and BUH% shows us the percentage of non-sac Bunts resulting in Base Hits. And there's the sore thumb from 2007- a non-repeatable 64.4% BUH%. Here's Taveras career:

    2008: 40.7%
    2007: 64.4%
    2006: 42.9%
    2005: 47.7%

    Taveras did nothing to change his freakin' approach. The results were almost identical for BIP rates excepting a slight increase in Taveras' 2008 Line Drive rate versus 2007 (20.1% versus 16.9%). Jamie Quirk is flat out looney and those quotes read as if Jocketty is sitting next to him in a padded cell. He needs to hit the ball on the ground more? His 2008 GB rate was identical to 2007. Taveras hit a lower percentage of fly balls, and his Line Drive rate actually went up slightly. What he didn't do (and couldn't be expected to) is leg out an additional 24 percent of his bunt attempts like he did in 2007.

    Now we know for a fact where most of that BABIP spike came from and it has nothing to do with a "changed approach". Jocketty shouldn't have brought him in, but should definitely be expected to know enough about Taveras' game that he wouldn't cite Jamie Quirk's fairy dust "approach" story as a reason to look for improvement. In fact, the next time Quirk suggests something I'd do the exact opposite if I were Jocketty.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch thatís over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.Ē
    --Ted Williams

  8. #307
    You're being very UnDude. sonny's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    I, for one, am excited about this signing.


    Just kidding, this is crap.
    Witty signature.

  9. #308
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by top6 View Post
    I don't know about this. I have a lot of smart Sox fans friends, and none of them were excited about the Dye trade. I don't think the Reds really had anything that they wanted (that the Reds were willing to give away, that is).

    I loathe the Taveras signing for a lot of reasons, but I am not sure there is that much they could have done. Who is an outfielder they could have signed? It actually would have been nice - for me - if they had done nothing instead of something - like this - that is really just a PR move, so the casual fan (and the Allen Cutlers of the world) can say they are doing something.

    In any event, I certainly hope you are wrong that he needs to shed salary, but in this economy anything is possible and I honestly have no idea where most of Castelinis's money was made (and whether he is in serious trouble).
    The Reds have the money; heck, all teams do. The economy is simply a pretext to spend less.

  10. #309
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Here are the career OPS's from the 11 guys that will probably get the most PA's in 09 as of today.
    Dickerson (08)1021
    Votto 879 (07-08)
    -----------NL AVG 1B 837
    EE (06-08) 809
    -----------NL AVG LF 802
    EE (Career) 801
    -----------NL AVG RF786
    BP (06-08) 776
    -----------NL AVG 3B 774
    Bruce (08) 767
    -----------NL AVG CF 760
    Hernandez (06-08) 755
    Hernandez (career) 747---NL AVG 2B 747
    A-Gon (06-07) 745
    Hopper (career) 738
    Hannigan (08) 735
    ------------NL AVG SS 734
    Kepp (06-08) 733
    BP (career)733
    Kep (career)728
    ------------NL AVG C 712
    (JHJ 700) not signed

    A-Gon (career)695
    Willy T (06-08) 669
    Willy T (career) 668

    Not an inspiring group.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  11. #310
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    The Reds have the money; heck, all teams do. The economy is simply a pretext to spend less.
    I stated much the same thing in Krusty's Manny thread. Money isn't the issue in regards to one or two players. It's how you spend it, big or small.

    This was spending dumb.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  12. #311
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Here are the career OPS's from the 11 guys that will probably get the most PA's in 09 as of today.

    Votto 879
    EE 801

    Bruce 767
    Hernandez 747
    Hopper 738
    Hannigan 735
    BP 733
    Kep 728
    (JHJ 700) not signed

    A-Gon 695
    Willy T 668

    Not an inspiring group.
    Nope, but a group of mostly under-30 hitters (and considering A-Gon's not likely to grab a single bat with the club in 09, that leaves Hernandez as the lone 30 + guy on offense). Folks wanted "young," well, they're getting it.

  13. #312
    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    How do opposing defenses let a guy reach on almost 65% of bunt hit attempts?
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  14. #313
    Member Strikes Out Looking's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    I'm with Krusty on this one. In '09 the Reds are going to be depending on their pitching if they want to compete and of course I'd love to have a RH hitting LF that will hit 30 homers, drive in 100 and play gold glove defense. But here is why I'm not opposed to this deal and definitely not suicidal:

    1. I like Dickerson, but he seems to like the trainer's room--and I'd rather have Willie T and Dickerson and hope Dickerson can beat him out and then stay healthy.

    2. Willie Taveras's numbers in 2008, while fairly lousy, were still better than one Corey Patterson.

    3. Hairston is no 1.) guarantee to sign with the Reds, 2.) repeat his 2008 numbers and 3.) stay healthy enough to get 500 PA's.

    4. The amount spent on this contract is nothing that would stop the Reds if a better option came along--and they still need a LF.

  15. #314
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Just saw this.

    My thoughts? This...is...awful.

  16. #315
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    I stated much the same thing in Krusty's Manny thread. Money isn't the issue in regards to one or two players. It's how you spend it, big or small.

    This was spending dumb.
    Any word yet on how much Taveras signed for?

    Obviously, part of the value is in how much they spent. If 2 years, $5 million or less, that's one thing (yes, I know- for some of us here, any resources spent on Willie is a waste). If 2 years at $5 million a year- then it's really not good. Well, really dumb.

    Taveras made $1,950,000 last year, according to: http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/taverwi01.shtml


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