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Thread: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

  1. #361
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Sir Charles: It's NOT just the OBP issues. I wish that were only it. Somewhere, in one of the other Tavares threads, I, and others, documented his SLG issues. To say he swings a wet noodle at the plate is to insult wet noodles. He's absolutely useless with the bat in his hands. Useless.

    The ONLY way he doesn't affirimitvely hurt this team is if he miraculously OBPs .375 this year. A batting average driven .375. Which means he will need to hit about .335. And, with his lack of power, that is just about impossible.

    Go look again at his career SLG. I will wait. Look at it for individual seasons. And consider how horrible it is going to be when he gets 600 at-bats for this team. If he is not getting on base, he is useless. Completely and totally useless. And his getting on base is largely dependant on being hit lucky. Uber-hit lucky. And I gotta say, the odds of him being such in a small park like GABP compared to the wide expanses of Coors which will allow more than the usual number of bloop hits, well, they're not good.

    This is an awful signing, for all the reasons that were laid out on this board in about five threads this off-season, as we all cringed at what was coming. It makes the climb to, um, .500 that much harder, and it darn near puts a bullet in the brain of hopes for a WC chase for this team.

    Par for the course, I suppose. What we have come to expect from this waste of a franchise, anymore, I guess.

    ETA: His stats at baseballrefernce.com

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/taverwi01.shtml

    His career HIGH for SLG is .382. That's it. That's his high. His norm? For slugging? For SLUGGING? .337. That's horrible. On so many levels that the mind reels...

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  3. #362
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    You know how this is a bad signing?

    Even the sun deck hates it
    Go Gators!

  4. #363
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    You know how this is a bad signing?

    Even the sun deck hates it

    Last time I looked Reds.com mb was so in love with it they wanted to marry it.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  5. #364
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    By the way, somone asked upthread what numbers Tavares will need to make the doubters happy. Well, THIS doubter will need to see a:

    .370 OBP with a .350 SLG. That would give him a .720 OPS.

    Which would a l m o s t get him to the point where he isn't completely harming the team. I mean, really, it is hard to under-estimate just how awful that man's slugging is with respect to his "game".

    But, hey, he OPS's .720, and I will call that a "win" for Jocketty. For finding and signing a guy who, in the best case scenario, is worse than league average. More than likely, he's gonna OPS around .650. Which is tragic. And fatal to this club.

    Whole thing blows.

  6. #365
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    he makes juan pierre look like teddy ballgame
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  7. #366
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Still waiting to hear what the dollar amount was on this deal.

    Since the Nats signed C. Patterson for $650K for one year it would seem somewhat logical that if the Reds spent more than $1.3M for two years of Wet Willie, they will have overpaid.

    Rem

  8. #367
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    I'm not saying I like the Willy T. signing, but I'm not going to let his signing ruin my outlook for 2009-2010.

    In four full seasons he has played on three winning teams. He has appeared in two World series. I like his defense though I think he plays a little too deeply for my tastes. He has a strong, accurate arm. He should turn 27 years old as a Red which is an age Bill James feels is the most likely to produce a career season.

    He may suck beyond belief, but I'm willing to wait and see how the big picture of the total season pans out.
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

  9. #368
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by remdog View Post
    Still waiting to hear what the dollar amount was on this deal.

    Since the Nats signed C. Patterson for $650K for one year it would seem somewhat logical that if the Reds spent more than $1.3M for two years of Wet Willie, they will have overpaid.

    Rem
    Same here. Why are they keeping the particulars of a fringe signing so hush-hush?

  10. #369
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    C.Trent says the Reds have talked with the Yankees about there outfielders.. I say bring in Nick Swisher!
    "I could watch video of Griffey swinging all day. It's like baseball porn." - C. Trent Rosecrans


    2008 Reds Record When I Attend: 9W - 5L

    2009 Reds Record When I Attend: 1W - 2L

    2010 Reds Record When I Attend: 1W - 0L

    2011 Reds Record When I Attend: 0W - 1L

  11. #370
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    Same here. Why are they keeping the particulars of a fringe signing so hush-hush?
    This is no fringe signing, this is our starting CF and lead off hitter, 600 at bats just landed in town.

    Woo.
    Go Gators!

  12. #371
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    I want to know what the money is. 2 years is too long though. I would've been able to swallow a 1 year deal, with the hope that Stubbs would've been ready for '10 (or to see if Dickerson could've handled half of the ABs). But 2 years is scary.

    I do agree with FCB though that I don't this move damns the Reds. It doesn't help them, but addressing the SS position and and the 3B/LF position are more important.

  13. #372
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Reds CF OPS vs the League CF's with 200 PA's since the league was broken into divisions

    Code:
    CINCINNATI REDS
    SEASON
    1969-2008
    CF
    OBA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    SLG displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    RUNS CREATED/GAME displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    PLATE APPEARANCES displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    
    OPS                           YEAR     DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE     OBA      SLG     RC/G      PA     
    1    Jon Nunnally             1997     .249    1.002     .753     .400     .602     9.38      231   
    2    Eric Davis               1989     .237     .908     .672     .367     .541     6.71      542   
    3    Eric Davis               1987     .213     .991     .778     .399     .593     9.57      562   
    4    Ken Griffey Jr.          2005     .186     .946     .760     .369     .576     7.80      555   
    5    Josh Hamilton            2007     .170     .922     .752     .368     .554     7.18      337   
    6    Ken Griffey Jr.          2003     .165     .936     .771     .370     .566     7.48      201   
    7    Ken Griffey Jr.          2001     .161     .898     .737     .365     .533     7.02      417   
    8    Eric Davis               1996     .158     .917     .759     .394     .523     7.56      496   
    9    Ken Griffey Jr.          2000     .153     .942     .789     .387     .556     7.87      631   
    10   Eric Davis               1988     .153     .852     .700     .363     .489     6.68      543   
    11   Ken Griffey Jr.          2004     .098     .864     .766     .351     .513     6.23      348   
    12   Roberto Kelly            1993     .097     .829     .732     .354     .475     6.06      342   
    13   Eric Davis               1990     .091     .833     .743     .347     .486     6.21      518   
    14   Reggie Sanders           1992     .085     .819     .734     .356     .462     5.86      438   
    15   Bobby Tolan              1970     .083     .860     .777     .384     .475     6.81      675   
    16   Bobby Tolan              1969     .078     .821     .743     .347     .474     5.84      691   
    17   Ken Griffey Sr.          1981     .075     .780     .705     .370     .409     5.64      442   
    18   Cesar Geronimo           1976     .072     .795     .723     .382     .414     6.24      555   
    19   Cesar Cedeno             1982     .045     .758     .713     .346     .413     4.74      543   
    20   Ken Griffey Jr.          2006     .043     .802     .759     .316     .486     4.98      472   
    21   Eddie Milner             1986     .037     .762     .725     .317     .446     4.83      462   
    22   Eric Davis               1991     .035     .739     .704     .353     .386     5.14      340   
    23   Juan Encarnacion         2002     .034     .804     .770     .330     .474     5.31      354   
    24   Mike Cameron             1999     .033     .825     .792     .357     .469     6.20      636   
    25   Eric Davis               1984     .021     .786     .765     .320     .466     5.44      200   
    26   Dave Collins             1980     .015     .736     .721     .366     .370     5.58      613   
    27   Ken Griffey Jr.          2002     .014     .784     .770     .358     .426     5.16      232   
    28   Ruben Rivera             2001     .009     .747     .737     .321     .426     4.43      290   
    29   Thomas Howard            1995     .008     .752     .744     .350     .402     5.17      304   
    30   Jacob Brumfield          1993     .008     .740     .732     .321     .419     4.82      299   
    31   Norris Hopper            2007     .007     .758     .752     .371     .388     5.23      335   
    32   Ryan Freel               2006     .004     .762     .759     .363     .399     5.55      523   
    33   Eddie Milner             1983     .002     .734     .732     .350     .384     4.78      584   
    34   Cesar Geronimo           1974     .000     .739     .739     .345     .395     4.77      530   
    35   Herm Winningham          1989    -.001     .671     .672     .316     .355     3.90      278   
    36   Reggie Sanders           1998    -.003     .764     .767     .346     .418     5.01      545   
    37   Bobby Tolan              1972    -.004     .720     .724     .334     .386     4.42      667   
    38   Eddie Milner             1985    -.022     .688     .710     .342     .347     4.51      520   
    39   Cesar Geronimo           1977    -.026     .709     .735     .321     .388     4.17      538   
    40   Cesar Geronimo           1978    -.037     .664     .701     .329     .334     3.73      351   
    41   Cesar Geronimo           1975    -.047     .690     .737     .327     .363     4.24      557   
    42   George Foster            1971    -.050     .675     .726     .289     .386     3.16      402   
    43   Reggie Taylor            2002    -.050     .719     .770     .291     .429     3.66      311   
    44   Dave Martinez            1992    -.057     .677     .734     .323     .354     3.92      445   
    45   Deion Sanders            1997    -.060     .693     .753     .329     .363     4.74      509   
    46   Cesar Geronimo           1979    -.064     .655     .719     .312     .343     3.51      400   
    47   Deion Sanders            1994    -.075     .700     .776     .342     .359     4.50      203   
    48   Eddie Milner             1984    -.089     .676     .765     .333     .342     4.04      397   
    49   Ryan Freel               2007    -.097     .655     .752     .308     .347     3.65      304   
    50   Curtis Goodwin           1997    -.131     .622     .753     .316     .306     3.01      297   
    51   Cesar Geronimo           1973    -.158     .574     .732     .266     .309     2.56      358   
    52   Corey Patterson          2008    -.169     .582     .751     .238     .344     2.51      392   
    53   Bobby Tolan              1973    -.177     .555     .732     .251     .304     2.24      501  

  14. #373
    Member durl's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    I'm going to say that Taverus will end up doing good in Cincinnati.

    If I'm right, it makes me look like a genius. If I'm wrong, I'll blame it on a desire to be contrary to the tidal wave of disapproval.

  15. #374
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    This is no fringe signing, this is our starting CF and lead off hitter, 600 at bats just landed in town.

    Woo.
    Fringe in the overall MLB sense. This isn't exactly a headline-drawing signing across the country. If this was Krivsky, he probably would have given him $6 million over 2 years. Since it's Walt, I'm a little more optimistic the Reds got him on the cheap.

    (And yes, I know many will argue nothing could be cheap enough for Taveras.)

  16. #375
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by durl View Post
    I'm going to say that Taverus will end up doing good in Cincinnati.

    If I'm right, it makes me look like a genius. If I'm wrong, I'll blame it on a desire to be contrary to the tidal wave of disapproval.
    Willie could very well end up doing good in Cincinnati. He could volenteer in a soup kitchen, appear as the 'player to be dunked' at a charity event, collect 'Toys for Tots'. That would be 'doing good'.

    Baseball? Can he play well? I'd guess not.

    Rem


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