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Thread: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

  1. #391
    Member SMcGavin's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    By the way, I'm sure it's been said earlier in this thread, but what happens if you put Chris Dickerson out there for 650 PAs in CF? Isn't the absolute worst case scenario that he puts up a season like Willy Taveras (fast, good defense, no bat)?

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  3. #392
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Edabbs, my expectations were to hope for a .500 season. Was that reasonable? For those that wanted more, Tavares is a dagger. Unless someone puts up a 1.030 OPS to help mask Taveras' awfulness.

  4. #393
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    I disagree. Catcher, shortstop & centerfield are the three positions where the player has to be able to play defense. If a team can get strong defense and an OPS of 700 out these positions they are doing well.
    That .700 OPS era for CF is over, especially with smaller parks, since 2000 only 18% of the CF who have played enough to qualify for the batting title have had an OPS of .700 or less, 17 guys out of 91 and Taveras is there three times

    Code:
    NATIONAL LEAGUE
    SEASON
    2000-2008
    CF
    
    OPS                           YEAR     OPS    
    1    Jim Edmonds              2004    1.061   
    2    Richard Hidalgo          2000    1.028   
    3    Brian Giles              2000    1.026   
    4    Jim Edmonds              2003    1.002   
    5    Jim Edmonds              2000     .994   
    6    Lance Berkman            2002     .982   
    7    Carlos Beltran           2006     .982   
    8    Jim Edmonds              2002     .981   
    9    Jim Edmonds              2001     .974   
    10   Ken Griffey Jr.          2005     .946   
    11   Ken Griffey Jr.          2000     .942   
    12   Andruw Jones             2005     .922   
    13   Jim Edmonds              2005     .918   
    14   Andruw Jones             2000     .907   
    15   Steve Finley             2000     .904   
    16   Andruw Jones             2006     .894   
    17   Aaron Rowand             2007     .889   
    18   Preston Wilson           2003     .880   
    19   Andruw Jones             2002     .878   
    20   Carlos Beltran           2007     .878   
    21   Carlos Beltran           2008     .876   
    22   Steve Finley             2002     .869   
    23   Steve Finley             2003     .863   
    24   Nate McLouth             2008     .853   
    25   Andruw Jones             2003     .851   
    26   Brad Wilkerson           2002     .840   
    27   Mike Cameron             2006     .837   
    28   Andruw Jones             2004     .833   
    29   Preston Wilson           2001     .825   
    30   Steve Finley             2004     .823   
    31   Scott Podsednik          2003     .822   
    32   Preston Wilson           2000     .817   
    33   Richard Hidalgo          2001     .811   
    34   Mark Kotsay              2002     .810   
    35   Mike Cameron             2008     .809   
    36   Cody Ross                2008     .804   
    37   Kenny Lofton             2003     .801   
    38   Shane Victorino          2008     .799   
    39   Matt Kemp                2008     .799   
    40   Brady Clark              2005     .798   
    41   Mike Cameron             2004     .798   
    42   Eric Byrnes              2006     .795   
    43   Juan Pierre              2001     .793   
    44   Preston Wilson           2005     .793   
    45   Marquis Grissom          2003     .790   
    46   Milton Bradley           2004     .786   
    47   Marlon Byrd              2003     .784   
    48   Juan Pierre              2004     .781   
    49   Jay Payton               2000     .778   
    50   Marquis Grissom          2004     .773   
    51   Andruw Jones             2001     .772   
    52   Corey Patterson          2004     .771   
    53   Steve Finley             2001     .767   
    54   Skip Schumaker           2008     .765   
    55   Kenny Lofton             2006     .763   
    56   Chris Young              2007     .763   
    57   Craig Biggio             2003     .763   
    58   Ryan Freel               2006     .762   
    59   Mike Cameron             2007     .759   
    60   Preston Wilson           2002     .759   
    61   Chris Young              2008     .758   
    62   Brad Wilkerson           2005     .756   
    63   Aaron Rowand             2008     .749   
    64   Carlos Beltran           2005     .744   
    65   Bill Hall                2007     .740   
    66   Marvin Benard            2000     .739   
    67   Juan Pierre              2003     .734   
    68   Lastings Milledge        2008     .731   
    69   Jeffrey Hammonds         2002     .729   
    70   Mark Kotsay              2003     .726   
    71   Andruw Jones             2007     .724   
    72   Juan Pierre              2006     .717   
    73   Damon Buford             2000     .714   
    74   Tom Goodwin              2000     .698   
    75   Jay Payton               2004     .693   
    76   Endy Chavez              2004     .688   
    77   Juan Pierre              2007     .685   
    78   Tike Redman              2004     .684   
    79   Doug Glanville           2000     .681   
    80   Juan Pierre              2005     .680   
    81   Scott Podsednik          2004     .677   
    82   Corey Patterson          2002     .676   
    83   Juan Pierre              2002     .675   
    84   Willy Taveras            2006     .672   
    85   Peter Bergeron           2000     .669   
    86   Willy Taveras            2005     .666   
    87   Doug Glanville           2001     .660   
    88   Endy Chavez              2003     .648   
    89   Marquis Grissom          2000     .640   
    90   Willy Taveras            2008     .604   
    91   Michael Bourn            2008     .588

  5. #394
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by OldRightHander View Post
    If he does the above, hustles out to the field and runs hard on ground outs, and looks upset when he strikes out, he will be a hero in Cincinnati.
    True.

    But he still won't be a very good baseball player.

    Rem

  6. #395
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    The worst part about this signing is that the game threads will be flat out unreadable.
    And before they were?

  7. #396
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    So if the season started today, this would be the most likely Dusty lineup, right?

    Willy T 308/296
    Dickerson 413/609
    Votto 368/506
    BP 312/442
    Bruce 314/453
    EE 340/466
    Kep 310/346
    Hernandez 309/406

    5 of 8 with sub 315 OBP in 2008.
    I expect Bruce to get better, Votto to slow down a bit, Dickerson to fall way down (probably around the 330/450 area).
    Yeah, that's not going to work for me.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  8. #397
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by remdog View Post
    True.

    But he still won't be a very good baseball player.

    Rem
    But he'll probably endorse a chili product.

  9. #398
    You're soaking in it! MartyFan's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by SMcGavin View Post
    By the way, I'm sure it's been said earlier in this thread, but what happens if you put Chris Dickerson out there for 650 PAs in CF? Isn't the absolute worst case scenario that he puts up a season like Willy Taveras (fast, good defense, no bat)?
    My thought exactly, though for whatever reason, Dickerson doesn't have the confidence of the FO to do at least as good as Willy.

    Is the FO making moves just to make moves?

    Could Dickerson be one of the players involved in a trade for the RH power bat...like with Homer for Dye?

    Just wondering, because this move rally doesn't make sense when you consider that we already have Dickerson on the tam.
    "Sometimes, it's not the sexiest moves that put you over the top," Krivsky said. "It's a series of transactions that help you get there."

  10. #399
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by chicoruiz View Post
    Hey, at least we bought low on this guy. If 2008 was an aberration
    2007 was the aberration. 2008 was simply a repeat of 2005 and 2006.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  11. #400
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    But he'll probably endorse a chili product.
    Great idea. He can get together with Bronson and create a whole new series of commercials entitled, 'Tasteing It Again!' (Sung to an old, familiar tune...) .

    Rem

  12. #401
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    That .700 OPS era for CF is over, especially with smaller parks, since 2000 only 18% of the CF who have played enough to qualify for the batting title have had an OPS of .700 or less, 17 guys out of 91 and Taveras is there three times

    Code:
    NATIONAL LEAGUE
    SEASON
    2000-2008
    CF
    
    OPS                           YEAR     OPS    
    1    Jim Edmonds              2004    1.061   
    2    Richard Hidalgo          2000    1.028   
    3    Brian Giles              2000    1.026   
    4    Jim Edmonds              2003    1.002   
    5    Jim Edmonds              2000     .994   
    6    Lance Berkman            2002     .982   
    7    Carlos Beltran           2006     .982   
    8    Jim Edmonds              2002     .981   
    9    Jim Edmonds              2001     .974   
    10   Ken Griffey Jr.          2005     .946   
    11   Ken Griffey Jr.          2000     .942   
    12   Andruw Jones             2005     .922   
    13   Jim Edmonds              2005     .918   
    14   Andruw Jones             2000     .907   
    15   Steve Finley             2000     .904   
    16   Andruw Jones             2006     .894   
    17   Aaron Rowand             2007     .889   
    18   Preston Wilson           2003     .880   
    19   Andruw Jones             2002     .878   
    20   Carlos Beltran           2007     .878   
    21   Carlos Beltran           2008     .876   
    22   Steve Finley             2002     .869   
    23   Steve Finley             2003     .863   
    24   Nate McLouth             2008     .853   
    25   Andruw Jones             2003     .851   
    26   Brad Wilkerson           2002     .840   
    27   Mike Cameron             2006     .837   
    28   Andruw Jones             2004     .833   
    29   Preston Wilson           2001     .825   
    30   Steve Finley             2004     .823   
    31   Scott Podsednik          2003     .822   
    32   Preston Wilson           2000     .817   
    33   Richard Hidalgo          2001     .811   
    34   Mark Kotsay              2002     .810   
    35   Mike Cameron             2008     .809   
    36   Cody Ross                2008     .804   
    37   Kenny Lofton             2003     .801   
    38   Shane Victorino          2008     .799   
    39   Matt Kemp                2008     .799   
    40   Brady Clark              2005     .798   
    41   Mike Cameron             2004     .798   
    42   Eric Byrnes              2006     .795   
    43   Juan Pierre              2001     .793   
    44   Preston Wilson           2005     .793   
    45   Marquis Grissom          2003     .790   
    46   Milton Bradley           2004     .786   
    47   Marlon Byrd              2003     .784   
    48   Juan Pierre              2004     .781   
    49   Jay Payton               2000     .778   
    50   Marquis Grissom          2004     .773   
    51   Andruw Jones             2001     .772   
    52   Corey Patterson          2004     .771   
    53   Steve Finley             2001     .767   
    54   Skip Schumaker           2008     .765   
    55   Kenny Lofton             2006     .763   
    56   Chris Young              2007     .763   
    57   Craig Biggio             2003     .763   
    58   Ryan Freel               2006     .762   
    59   Mike Cameron             2007     .759   
    60   Preston Wilson           2002     .759   
    61   Chris Young              2008     .758   
    62   Brad Wilkerson           2005     .756   
    63   Aaron Rowand             2008     .749   
    64   Carlos Beltran           2005     .744   
    65   Bill Hall                2007     .740   
    66   Marvin Benard            2000     .739   
    67   Juan Pierre              2003     .734   
    68   Lastings Milledge        2008     .731   
    69   Jeffrey Hammonds         2002     .729   
    70   Mark Kotsay              2003     .726   
    71   Andruw Jones             2007     .724   
    72   Juan Pierre              2006     .717   
    73   Damon Buford             2000     .714   
    74   Tom Goodwin              2000     .698   
    75   Jay Payton               2004     .693   
    76   Endy Chavez              2004     .688   
    77   Juan Pierre              2007     .685   
    78   Tike Redman              2004     .684   
    79   Doug Glanville           2000     .681   
    80   Juan Pierre              2005     .680   
    81   Scott Podsednik          2004     .677   
    82   Corey Patterson          2002     .676   
    83   Juan Pierre              2002     .675   
    84   Willy Taveras            2006     .672   
    85   Peter Bergeron           2000     .669   
    86   Willy Taveras            2005     .666   
    87   Doug Glanville           2001     .660   
    88   Endy Chavez              2003     .648   
    89   Marquis Grissom          2000     .640   
    90   Willy Taveras            2008     .604   
    91   Michael Bourn            2008     .588
    I had to quote this because no argument made in this whole thread sums it up quite like this one. woy dispelled the myth of the weak hitting CF and put Taveras in context with his peers.

    And that context is he sucks beyond measure.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  13. #402
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by SMcGavin View Post
    Yeah. Faith in Walt's history was carrying me through the offseason. When he made the Hernandez deal, I thought "this is how a pro does it". Now - ugh. Though it makes a little more sense when you consider that two crucial parts of his STL plan were "draft one of the best hitters in MLB history in the 13th round" and "sign nobody pitchers for cheap and let the best pitching coach in the league turn them into contributors".
    Yeah, unfortunately, there's no Dave Duncan and no Albert Pujols. Those are a couple fairly not-minor problems. Regardless of the sport, the game eventually passes by everyone. It's just fate that Castellini assembled an entire staff of that sort.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  14. #403
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Yeah, unfortunately, there's no Dave Duncan and no Albert Pujols. Those are a couple fairly not-minor problems. Regardless of the sport, the game eventually passes by everyone. It's just fate that Castellini assembled an entire staff of that sort.
    Not sure I'd reduce Walt's tenure to Pujols and the nebulous benefits of a pitching coach.

  15. #404
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    I'm not calling Taveras a great or even a good player.
    You can call him anything you want, it doesnt matter because the data is very clear on what type of player Taveras actually is.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  16. #405
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Not sure I'd reduce Walt's tenure to Pujols and the nebulous benefits of a pitching coach.
    The last five or so years certainly were. Having Pujols lets you screw around and get away with Womack signings. Good luck with that here...


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