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Thread: So... Are we better yet?

  1. #1
    Member jesusfan's Avatar
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    So... Are we better yet?

    Lost:

    Adam Dunn
    Ken Griffey Jr
    Ryan Freel
    Jeremy Affeldt
    David Ross
    Javier Valentin
    Jerry Hairston Jr?
    Corey Patterson
    Paul Bako

    Added:
    Willy Taveras
    Ramon Hernandez
    Arthur Rhodes


    I know Walt isn't finished yet, but just a breakdown of what we have lost and what we have added as of 12/29/2008. Ramon Hernandez will provide much more imho than Paul Bako or David Ross... Willy Taveras is much better than Patterson and will be Ryan Freel with more speed, but lower OBP. Arthur Rhodes will be Jeremy Affeldt, considering his age we will have to wait and see though.

    So, the question is this: How have we replaced the offensive production from Griffey Jr and Adam Dunn, particularly Dunn??? The answer is we haven't. I know Griffey and Dunn hurt us in the outfield, but the fact is that we have to find a way to replace their 210 hits, 55 home runs and 153 RBI... Don't feed me crap that Hairston will be the answer because he isn't. He is a great utility type bench player, but he will NEVER be able to play full time. He might prove me wrong, but he is very injury prone.

    In conclusion.. I really do feel that Taveras will be a lot more productive than Patterson and a bit more productive than Ryan Freel (Call me crazy) Ramon Hernandez will be a bit more productive than Ross/Valentin and Rhodes production will be right around Affeldt's. THE MAJOR QUESTION of the off- season is how we replace those offensive numbers from Griffey and Dunn. I know some will answer that Bruce, Votto, Edwin and Phillips will have better numbers. I agree that Bruce and Votto more than likely will, but will it equal 210 more hits, 55 home runs and 153 more RBI. NO... If we want to be anywhere close to competitive Walt simply has to go out and get a solid, productive guy to play LF. Does that mean he has to hit 40-50 Home runs and 130-150 RBI... No, but he does need to be a RUN PRODUCER in order to make up for the big offensive hole that is leaving. I'm done...
    "There is a great man who makes every man feel small. But the real great man is the man who makes every man feel great." G.K Charleston

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  3. #2
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Re: So... Are we better yet?

    Good post and I agree we need a run producer. Pitching should be above average as we could see improvement from Harang and Cueto aswell as much of the same from Volquez and Arroyo. The bullpen is solid and has some depth. The key to this offseason will be able to get the LFer with pop and the ability to drive in runs.
    "I could watch video of Griffey swinging all day. It's like baseball porn." - C. Trent Rosecrans


    2008 Reds Record When I Attend: 9W - 5L

    2009 Reds Record When I Attend: 1W - 2L

    2010 Reds Record When I Attend: 1W - 0L

    2011 Reds Record When I Attend: 0W - 1L

  4. #3
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: So... Are we better yet?

    The efforts to improve this team so far?



    I was ok with the Lincoln re-signing and I think the Hernadez trade, while not overly flashy will strengthen an otherwise cavernous hole behind the plate.

    However the Taveras deal is a complete and utter fail. Not only is he an hideous player you are putting a loaded gun in the hands of The Dusty. He just won't be able to help himself and by June we'll be 10 games back.

    The lack of any changes at SS is a massive omission. The offseason is still young so there's plenty of time for Walt to come through in the clutch. But if we go into April with Jeff Keppenger as our starting short stop that's an Epic Fail.

    Same applies to a big bat(s). While there's plenty of time to do something, if we end up with Jerry Harriston Jr. as our "big bat" it will be time for me to get a new hobby.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 12-29-2008 at 09:33 AM.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  5. #4
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: So... Are we better yet?

    No.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  6. #5
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: So... Are we better yet?

    Yes.

    The question is - are we better yet? From the start of 2008? Are you kidding? Unequivocally yes. The starting staff is deeper and better, the relief corps should be about equal, the catching is better, Taveras IS better in CF, that puts Dickerson in rover mode and as a 4th OFer he's better than anything we've had, some offense, speed and great defense, Jay Bruce is here and has some experience under his belt to build on, Votto is no longer the guy trying to break in, no Patterson, no Hatteberg, no Castro or Stanton, or Majewski, or Bako. EE and Phillips both had rather off years, I expect each to put up better numbers. As for Dunn and Junior the replacements to date will be much better on defense, Bruce will out perform what Junior had left without any doubt (at least in my mind), only Dunn's numbers will be hard to replicate BUT Hernandez and Taveras will each outperform their '08 counterparts, so will their backups Hanigan and Dickerson, imo. EE and BP having a bit better years will take up a bit, and Dunn's replacement won't add the same runs but a good portion of what's lost. YES. I expect this team to be better.

    Now. Is it better enough? Without a big bat for the middle of the lineup I don't think so. But the question was are they better? Look at opening day '08 and what projects to be opening day '09 right now and I don't see how anyone can claim they're not better. It's just that expectations were that a deal or deals would put the Reds closer to really competing. What we've seen are deals that inch us closer to .500 or just over, while waiting for the the hype to arrive in Frazier, Alonso, a "Bailey who finds it", Dorn, etc in 2011.
    2011? Well everything so far has been in the form of 2 year deals so I'd guess that's where the true hope for competing lies. Anything earlier will be "happy accidents"

  7. #6
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: So... Are we better yet?

    No.

    The team as it stands right now would win fewer games than the Reds did last season.

    We have essentially the same bad team right now as we did at the end of 2008. No improvements have been made other than a slightly better catcher.

    Jocketty still has plenty of time to improve the team before Opening Day, so hopefully Castellini will allow Walt to spend some money. Otherwise it is going to be an awfully boring season.

  8. #7
    Member jesusfan's Avatar
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    Re: So... Are we better yet?

    It's always waiting for the kids to arrive... Frankly, I'm tired of waiting for that because it never seems to come.
    "There is a great man who makes every man feel small. But the real great man is the man who makes every man feel great." G.K Charleston

  9. #8
    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
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    Re: So... Are we better yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfan View Post
    Lost:

    Adam Dunn
    Ken Griffey Jr
    Ryan Freel
    Jeremy Affeldt
    David Ross
    Javier Valentin
    Jerry Hairston Jr?
    Corey Patterson
    Paul Bako

    Added:
    Willy Taveras
    Ramon Hernandez
    Arthur Rhodes
    Not yet, but I doubt they are done yet either. Does anyone have an estimate of how much $$ they still have available to work with?

    GL

  10. #9
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: So... Are we better yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by gonelong View Post
    Not yet, but I doubt they are done yet either. Does anyone have an estimate of how much $$ they still have available to work with?

    GL
    I woudln't bet on it being much, like many, BobC has probably has taken quite a hit these last few months.
    Go Gators!

  11. #10
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: So... Are we better yet?

    Oh, and this team is far worse then last season.
    Go Gators!

  12. #11
    Member jesusfan's Avatar
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    Re: So... Are we better yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    I woudln't bet on it being much, like many, BobC has probably has taken quite a hit these last few months.
    Yeah... I bet Bob C is really hurting. Poor guy probably can't even feed his family...
    "There is a great man who makes every man feel small. But the real great man is the man who makes every man feel great." G.K Charleston

  13. #12
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: So... Are we better yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfan View Post
    Yeah... I bet Bob C is really hurting. Poor guy probably can't even feed his family...
    Didn't say that but he's not going to pour money down a drain, nobody will.

    Get ready for more Taveras like signings.
    Go Gators!

  14. #13
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: So... Are we better yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    Get ready for more Taveras like signings.
    Does that mean the losing will remain stopped?
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  15. #14
    Member jesusfan's Avatar
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    Re: So... Are we better yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    Didn't say that but he's not going to pour money down a drain, nobody will.

    Get ready for more Taveras like signings.
    If Bob C thinks winning and trying to field the best team possible is pouring money down the drain I don't want him around this organization...
    "There is a great man who makes every man feel small. But the real great man is the man who makes every man feel great." G.K Charleston

  16. #15
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: So... Are we better yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    Does that mean the losing will remain stopped?
    Oh yeah, it's gonna stop, every September
    Go Gators!


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