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Thread: Grade Our Owner - Mr "Win Now"

  1. #16
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Grade Our Owner - Mr "Win Now"

    Ability to spin a pleasing bedtime story (we're a'gonna win!)? A

    Money meets mouth? D

    Ability to articulate a vision for how we're a'gonna win? D-

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  3. #17
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Grade Our Owner - Mr "Win Now"

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Why wouldn't you put that on him?
    That's the GM's job.

  4. #18
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Grade Our Owner - Mr "Win Now"

    I give Bob a C+. The desire and commitment is there, he just needs to be more patient. His lack of patience will hurt the franchise in the long run if he doesn't get it under control.

  5. #19
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Grade Our Owner - Mr "Win Now"

    I give him a B.

    His heart is in the right place, he wants to win and is a fan of the game. He cares about winning, which is better than we've had here in the past.

    He's learning the ropes as an owner; the last few years experience will come in handy in the future.

  6. #20
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Grade Our Owner - Mr "Win Now"

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    That's the GM's job.
    Who gave the GM the ok to do those deals?

    So far Bob isn't that much different then Carl was, he just talks differently.
    Go Gators!

  7. #21
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Grade Our Owner - Mr "Win Now"

    I would say RC is the main impediment to seeing a turnaround. As long as this team is in a win now mode they will push out actually becoming a winning franchise indefinitely.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  8. #22
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Grade Our Owner - Mr "Win Now"

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    Who gave the GM the ok to do those deals?

    So far Bob isn't that much different then Carl was, he just talks differently.
    Come on...if the roster was Bob's call then he wouldn't have needed to pay a GM, since he is so cheap and all.

    Bob has increased payroll 25% in 2 years. He also paid the most money in the history of baseball for a relief pitcher.

    "Tight" isn't a word I would use to describe him.

  9. #23
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Grade Our Owner - Mr "Win Now"

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    "Tight" isn't a word I would use to describe him.
    I would agree but I can think of some other words that would be an apt description.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  10. #24
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: Grade Our Owner - Mr "Win Now"

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Come on...if the roster was Bob's call then he wouldn't have needed to pay a GM, since he is so cheap and all.

    Bob has increased payroll 25% in 2 years. He also paid the most money in the history of baseball for a relief pitcher.

    "Tight" isn't a word I would use to describe him.
    The payroll is still way too low. Given that the payroll during the Lindner years the payroll was criminally low it doesn't say much for Castellini that he has only increased it 25% so far -- especially considering the huge profits the team is making.

    Cordero is the only big-money free agent signed under Castellini, and that was a very unintelligent signing.
    Last edited by AtomicDumpling; 12-30-2008 at 06:06 PM.

  11. #25
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Grade Our Owner - Mr "Win Now"

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    The payroll is still way too low. Given that the payroll during the Lindner years the payroll was criminally low it doesn't say much for Castellini that he has only increased it 25% so far -- especially considering the huge profits the team is making.

    Cordero is the only big-money free agent signed under Castellini, and that was a very unintelligent signing.
    Huge profits?

  12. #26
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: Grade Our Owner - Mr "Win Now"

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Huge profits?
    Yes.

    Forbes and other independent reviews show the Reds have made $10-22 million per year from 2005-2007 and in addition to that the team's value as a franchise has increased significantly since Castellini bought the Reds. Bob C. has made an absolute fortune on the team already.

  13. #27
    Member Topcat's Avatar
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    Re: Grade Our Owner - Mr "Win Now"

    Impatience has hindered a good thing that was in place. Mackanin and Krivsky would serve this organization far better the the current regime.
    2006 Redzone mock Draftee's- 1(st) Daniel Bard(redsox), 1(st sup)( Jordan Walden (Angels), 2(nd) rd.- Zach Britton(Orioles), 3(rd) Blair Erickson(Cardinals), 3(rd) Tim Norton( Yankees),(cuz its a Tim Hortons thing

    Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory... lasts forever.

  14. #28
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Grade Our Owner - Mr "Win Now"

    I have long suspected that Bob is more hands-on than anyone with the Reds lets on. We probably won't know for sure until his regime is over or until Wayne Krivsky opens up to a reporter.

    If I'm right, I have no problem giving him a "C."
    /r/reds

  15. #29
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Grade Our Owner - Mr "Win Now"

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    I give Bob a C+. The desire and commitment is there, he just needs to be more patient. His lack of patience will hurt the franchise in the long run if he doesn't get it under control.
    Very well said.

    I think he really, really, really wants a winner in Cincy. Far more than Lindner ever did. I give him props for heart.

    But his rash movements behind the scenes will continue to do more harm than good.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  16. #30
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Grade Our Owner - Mr "Win Now"

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    We don't really know the reason the Reds didn't sign Adam Dunn. To say that it is monetarily is pure speculation.
    True. But pretty good speculation looking at this organization and how they have spent money.

    I am in agreement here. The FO needs to take full advantage of all the tools at its disposal. While I don't necessarily agree or like the Jamesian philosophy of baseball it is important to have a few disciples on every FO staff.
    It's more like BranchRicheyian.

    The Reds also picked up Phillips because some scout watched him. Liked what he saw, thought he would be a good risk. Jamie Quirk may have noticed something mechanically wrong with his swing or batting approach. He may have found something that Taveras does when he is struggling and something he doesn't do when he is successful. To completely throw watching, analysis, dissection of the human element of the game is wrong as well
    That all may be true about Taveras. Anything is possible. We can only hope this is true for our advantage.

    As for Phillips, it was a far different scenario. This was a kid that was really heralded as a top prospect in the Indian's organization. But like any 21/22 yr old kid he showed inconsistency. Only natural. They jerked him around pretty good, really screwed him up IMO, after "knighting" him the heir-apparent at 2B. They had him up and down so much that they lost the options on him and had to deal him or lose him.

    He was still a "diamond in the rough" at age 25 when we snapped him up. I don't see that in Taveras. Prior to '06, Phillips was only given a viable starting role in 2003 (112 games). He appeared in 6 games respectively in the following two years as he was jerked around (124 games total over 3 years) .

    Yet since 2005, Taveras was pretty much given the starting job with the Rockies and has played in 541 games.

    From what Jocketty has done in the past and to what he has said in public I think he has a firm understand of the sabermetric approach. Again I would highly doubt if he completely discounted it when making baseball decisions. Jocketty in his tenure with the Cards seemed to always be on the better end of trades. The only trade where he looked like he got fleeced was the Mulder for Haren trade. If your talking about trades then I am fully confident in him I just hope that he lest the minor league staff operate freely. It looks so far like Jocketty has let the minor league staff do what they want which is promising.
    But I don't think sabermetrics had anything at all to do with a majority of Jocketty's acquisitions/trades. It was about being in the right place at the right time, and being able to take advantage of the situation, such as with McGwire, Edmonds, and Rolen.

    Walt is known as being pretty "old school"....

    http://crosleyfieldterrace.wordpress...walt-jocketty/

    One of the major factors in his firing by the Cardinals and Chairman Bill DeWitt was the conflict of how to develop young talent and the use of a more analytical approach. Farm director Jeff Luhnow was promoted from his position of scouting director. This clash of approaches was documented in Baseball America’s preview of the NL Central (Issue 0725 Dec. 3-16 2007)
    “Luhnow was hired as a consultant to reboot the Cardinals’ use of statistical analysis.”

    The statistical analysis used lead Luhnow to draft Colby Rasmus, the Cardinals’ top prospect, during the 2005 draft. This rubbed Jocketty the wrong way. Jocketty is a noted “old school” baseball guy, going by gut instinct and a master at acquiring veteran talent. However, when Luhnow was given increasing power, Jocketty was not happy.

    “Some in the organization said Jocketty considered the move as an erosion of his power.” Obviously it was.

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...53C1A9619C8B63

    In 13 years under Jocketty, the Cardinals reached the playoffs seven times and won the World Series once. That Series conquest made his departure all the more curious because it came only a year later. Jocketty, 56, said he wasn't the victim of a power struggle, but was caught in a difference in strategic approach to building the team. Bill DeWitt Jr., the managing partner, sided with the vice president for player development and amateur scouting, Jeff Luhnow. ''It was probably more philosophical differences over the direction they wanted to take the club that I wasn't necessarily comfortable with,'' Jocketty said. ''He wanted to do things that were different from my philosophy. We felt the best way to resolve it was to go our separate ways.''


    The schism between Jocketty and DeWitt epitomizes the debate in baseball that has raged with increasing passion and disagreement: the traditional method of building a club (scouting) versus the newer method of statistical analysis, the player procurement method popularized in the book ''Moneyball.''

    ---------------------------

    Jocketty is described as a quintessential baseball man, albeit one equipped with the more daring killer instinct to make the right trades at the deadline. In part, that was a reflection on a generally weak player development program; the Cardinals depended on free agents and trades for the most part, and Jocketty's willingness to gamble.
    Last edited by GAC; 12-31-2008 at 06:01 AM.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations


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