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Thread: 17 players from Reds organization to participate in 2009 World Baseball Classic

  1. #16
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: 17 players from Reds organization to participate in 2009 World Baseball Classic

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I think there is a lot more being made about this than there should be.

    These guys would be throwing innings in ST anyways. These are a little more stressful innings, but its not like its adding 30 innings to their work load directly before the start of the season.
    I forget, are there little league like pitch limits? I'm a lot less worried about the innings count than I am the manager of a foreign team playing for respect making a Reds pitcher throw when he's tired.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  3. #17
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: 17 players from Reds organization to participate in 2009 World Baseball Classic

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I forget, are there little league like pitch limits? I'm a lot less worried about the innings count than I am the manager of a foreign team playing for respect making a Reds pitcher throw when he's tired.
    Yes, there are pitch counts in the WBC.

  4. #18
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: 17 players from Reds organization to participate in 2009 World Baseball Classic

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    To be exact, Volquez has thrown 21.2 innings and Cueto has thrown 15.2 IP. Plus they are both participating in the World Baseball Classic. A smart organization would have given them the choice between pitching in the DWL or WBC, not both.
    If I recall correctly, Bud Selig explicitly instructed clubs that they were not allowed to prohibit players from participating in the WBC.
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  5. #19
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: 17 players from Reds organization to participate in 2009 World Baseball Classic

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    If I recall correctly, Bud Selig explicitly instructed clubs that they were not allowed to prohibit players from participating in the WBC.
    All the worrying is much ado about nothing, IMO. As has been stated, injuries are going to happen if they're going to happen -- if a pitcher blows his arm out at the WBC, there's a good probability that he would've blown his arm out in spring training anyway. If the Reds are really concerned about Cueto and Volquez, they can limit their innings in ST play accordingly.

    The NHL releases its best players every 4 years to play in the Olympics and they seem to get along just fine. Heck, the last time the WBC was played, I don't seem to recall any of the participants suffering adversely for their play.
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  6. #20
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: 17 players from Reds organization to participate in 2009 World Baseball Classic

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    All the worrying is much ado about nothing, IMO. As has been stated, injuries are going to happen if they're going to happen -- if a pitcher blows his arm out at the WBC, there's a good probability that he would've blown his arm out in spring training anyway. If the Reds are really concerned about Cueto and Volquez, they can limit their innings in ST play accordingly.

    The NHL releases its best players every 4 years to play in the Olympics and they seem to get along just fine. Heck, the last time the WBC was played, I don't seem to recall any of the participants suffering adversely for their play.
    I agree with you. International competition means a lot to just about everyone except Americans. The players and fans from other countries took this tournament extremely seriously in 2006. I think the players that participated for the USA in '06 also took it seriously--unfortunately, the majority of American fans did not. I think a significant number of American players who could have made Team USA better also chose not to take it seriously by electing not to participate. As you said, hockey players participate in the Winter Olympics every four years. Also, soccer players from around the world participate in the World Cup every four years as well--apparently with little to no ill effects. Those players consider participation in those events as a great honor.
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  7. #21
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: 17 players from Reds organization to participate in 2009 World Baseball Classic

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Cueto and Volquez have already thrown roughly 15-20 IP apiece in the Dominican Winter League...

    On another note, did anyone see the video footage of Yu Darvish? Wow. That kid has some filthy stuff. I wonder when we'll see him in the US?
    Yeah seen the Darvish videos on MLB network, he's got some nice break on that yacker or splitter whichever it is and some good side to side movement on his 92-93 MPH fastball. Seems to run in on RHH's and away from LH's. I believe he also features a solid change and he is very creative making up pitches as he goes sometimes. Apparently he stated he wanted to get 200 career wins under his belt before he considers coming accross the pond, he has like 48 or 58 and is 23 yrs old, he won a career high 16 games last season.
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  8. #22
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: 17 players from Reds organization to participate in 2009 World Baseball Classic

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Yes, there are pitch counts in the WBC.
    I believe they stated the pitch counts were to be roughly about 65 per outing (for starters I assumed). Not strictly 65 but very close, for example if they have a guy 1-2 and are at their limit they will let them get through the PA. At least that was gone over in the roster selection show they had yesterday evening at 6 est. Davey Johnson said that his team has every intention to make sure they do not abuse any of these guys. I'm glad Mario Soto will be watching our prized arms, assuming Cueto even makes it, he has some stiff competition on that Dominican team, and BTW what a team they have.
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  9. #23
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: 17 players from Reds organization to participate in 2009 World Baseball Classic

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Yes, there are pitch counts in the WBC.
    There are indeed. But that wasn't the issue Silver found with the starters having problems from back in 2006 (relievers don't seem to have had the same problems as starters did--so that data is good for the Cordero part of this, for what it's worth). Go read Silver's piece and consider again how much of this team's success is hinging on two guys being fed to this particular experiment. The numbers for starters who pitched in the WBC in 2006 to start the season were horrible. In every sense. Despite pitch counts. Silver's guess as to why makes some sense to me. And I don't think the Reds, particularly with the Dusty, are all that enlightenend enough to study that data and make some early season allowances for the disruption to Volquez and Cueto's schedules. I hope I am wrong, but I really hate this for those two. And, yes, the data is limited to the 2006 experiment, but it IS data, and it is folly to ignore it, or simply close our eyes and hope that it will be different in 2009. The Reds should be affirmitively considering how to incorporate Volquez and Cueto back into routine following the month-long disruption to same, and doing everything they can minimize the danger to the start of the season. I really hope they are, but am not holding my breath.

    Seriously, go back and read that Silver piece. It isn't so much an injury issue with the extra work (although I am not a fan of the extra high effort innings that early in the spring) as it is a disruption of routine. Regardless, LOOK at those numbers for 2006. And look at the names of those having issues. And if the Reds have Volquez and Cueto come out of the gate with ERAs around six for the first month and a half, it is going to be a LONG year. In a perfect world, I wouldn't chance it.
    Last edited by membengal; 01-20-2009 at 08:15 AM.

  10. #24
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: 17 players from Reds organization to participate in 2009 World Baseball Classic

    I'm going to repost this from the Rodriguez thread because I think it's pertinant:

    I can't find a citation, but I thought they made some changes to the schedules (particularly the training schedule) to address some of the issues that took place last time. I thought part of it was that the tournament's schedule would overlap some of spring training's prep time. Then again, maybe it's that they're only reporting a week or two earlier to prepare.

    What I was trying to recall here is that I thought I'd read somewhere that some specific training rules were going to be applied to address some of the concerns from the previous tournament specifically as it had to do with pitchers. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I'd seen that. Sorry I don't have particulars.
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  11. #25
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: 17 players from Reds organization to participate in 2009 World Baseball Classic

    I see the Puerto Ricans are all set at catcher/1st/3rd/stache with Javy.
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  12. #26
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: 17 players from Reds organization to participate in 2009 World Baseball Classic

    RedsMetz, I hope you are right. Baseball certainly SHOULD have studied the starting pitcher issue after what happened in 2006. Still, even if they did, it is STILL an experiment this time around with regard to this event, and I don't want Volquez and Cueto a part of that experiment.

    When I pasted my post from the other thread over here, the link to the Silver piece and the numbers he compiled stopped working. Here it is afresh:

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=5054

  13. #27
    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
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    Re: 17 players from Reds organization to participate in 2009 World Baseball Classic

    I don't particularly care for the extra work on their arms, but I do like that Soto will be available to them for some time here, and then again in Spring Training.

    GL

  14. #28
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    Re: 17 players from Reds organization to participate in 2009 World Baseball Classic

    That is a silver lining, gonelong. I like that too. Pehaps that will help with disruption to their routine, issue.

  15. #29
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: 17 players from Reds organization to participate in 2009 World Baseball Classic

    From John Fay:

    One note: Edinson Volquez said he's pitching for the Dominican in the World Baseball Classic, but Johnny Cueto is not.

    http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs...cincinnati.com
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  16. #30
    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: 17 players from Reds organization to participate in 2009 World Baseball Classic

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    From John Fay:

    One note: Edinson Volquez said he's pitching for the Dominican in the World Baseball Classic, but Johnny Cueto is not.

    http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs...cincinnati.com
    I'm glad to hear that about Cueto. I would much rather he pitch in Florida with the Reds. I can't wait to watch him pitch again. I expect big, big things from him over the next 2 years. I think this year will be very good after learning from his first year in the show.
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