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Thread: Anyone ever had any dealings with ASCAP

  1. #16
    Member durl's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever had any dealings with ASCAP

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDeck View Post
    I don't know, the band is playing someone else's music, so doesn't it also reside with them to contribute to paying for the intellectual property? It's overhead, just like the gas they buy to cart their stuff to the show and I am sure that if they had a hit song of their own creation they would be happy to have ASCAP pursue their rights to royalties.
    At the same time, does ASCAP pursue this equally or do they just try to roll bar owners seem like easy marks?
    The band would pay if they were putting the cover songs on a CD and profiting from the sales. Another thing for the OP, I believe there is also an exemption somewhere that says if a live band sells their own albums, a license is not required. Just something else to consider.

    ASCAP Link: http://www.ascap.com/licensing/licensingfaq.html

    The law says all who participate in, or are responsible for, performances of music are legally responsible. Since it is the business owner who obtains the ultimate benefit from the performance, it is the business owner who obtains the license. Music license fees are one of the many costs of doing business.
    The idea is that a business owner is attempting to make his business more attractive to customers by using music. That makes them responsible for the fee.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Anyone ever had any dealings with ASCAP

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    How much typically does ASCAP charge for lets say, a night of songs?
    There's a bunch of info here.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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    Re: Anyone ever had any dealings with ASCAP

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    I'm not aware of any way around it....they are pretty nasty
    I agree. I once attended a presentation by an ASCAP rep at a conference. They know their stuff and they are relentless.

    Considering how the music sales industry is imploding, their artists are counting on ASCAP more than ever to wring every dollar out of their songs.
    /r/reds

  5. #19
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    Re: Anyone ever had any dealings with ASCAP

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    How much typically does ASCAP charge for lets say, a night of songs?
    I have a band every sat night so thats around 50 performances a year and the cost is over 800 just from ascap, as people have said though, once you pay ascap the other two will jump right in for theirs. So after paying all three I would guess the cost would be around 1500 dollars or more a year. The company who services my jukebox is already covered so thats for live acts only.

  6. #20
    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever had any dealings with ASCAP

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    How much typically does ASCAP charge for lets say, a night of songs?
    It's usually an annual fee.

    My office pays for it.
    Some people play baseball. Baseball plays Jay Bruce.

  7. #21
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever had any dealings with ASCAP

    Do what men who disagree do in bars... take it outside. Kick his arse and then give him one more kick as you call him Lars Ulrich.

    Makes for good conversation. I am curious to know what bar you own. I played in bands around the Dayton area for near 10 years. That was before all the BS though. If he comes back, then ignore him. Ask him to leave if he continues. If he does not leave, then call the police and have him removed. If an attorney calls, then cease with the bands and claim that all your musical talent played originals. Your word against the prick's word. He'd have a hard time proving anything unless he has video (audio could be recorded anywhere).

    Such crap. Local cover bands have played for locals for years. Millionaires many times over trying to squeeze more money out of the little people. Don't give in or back down.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  8. #22
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever had any dealings with ASCAP

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966 View Post
    Do what men who disagree do in bars... take it outside. Kick his arse and then give him one more kick as you call him Lars Ulrich.

    Makes for good conversation. I am curious to know what bar you own. I played in bands around the Dayton area for near 10 years. That was before all the BS though. If he comes back, then ignore him. Ask him to leave if he continues. If he does not leave, then call the police and have him removed. If an attorney calls, then cease with the bands and claim that all your musical talent played originals. Your word against the prick's word. He'd have a hard time proving anything unless he has video (audio could be recorded anywhere).

    Such crap. Local cover bands have played for locals for years. Millionaires many times over trying to squeeze more money out of the little people. Don't give in or back down.
    Devil's Advocate here...wouldn't the representative know this, and use his Blackberry to get some quick video?

  9. #23
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever had any dealings with ASCAP

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Devil's Advocate here...wouldn't the representative know this, and use his Blackberry to get some quick video?
    Perhaps (I am a bit behind on the technology thing).

    That is why a good bouncer is needed at a bar... what Blackberry? That thing that "fell out of his pocket" and broke into a thousand pieces in the parking lot?
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  10. #24
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    Re: Anyone ever had any dealings with ASCAP

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966 View Post
    Do what men who disagree do in bars... take it outside. Kick his arse and then give him one more kick as you call him Lars Ulrich.

    Makes for good conversation. I am curious to know what bar you own. I played in bands around the Dayton area for near 10 years. That was before all the BS though. If he comes back, then ignore him. Ask him to leave if he continues. If he does not leave, then call the police and have him removed. If an attorney calls, then cease with the bands and claim that all your musical talent played originals. Your word against the prick's word. He'd have a hard time proving anything unless he has video (audio could be recorded anywhere).

    Such crap. Local cover bands have played for locals for years. Millionaires many times over trying to squeeze more money out of the little people. Don't give in or back down.
    Although one sees the "Millionaires many times over" on TV, there are also many "not Millionaires many times over" who _DEPEND_ on being paid for their songwriting efforts to make their house, car, insurance, food note every month.

    I mean, if we're all for giving away other people's property, why not just give the booze away? "Millionaires many times over trying to squeeze more money out of the little people" by selling it.

    Such crap, indeed.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  11. #25
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    Re: Anyone ever had any dealings with ASCAP

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966 View Post
    Perhaps (I am a bit behind on the technology thing).

    That is why a good bouncer is needed at a bar... what Blackberry? That thing that "fell out of his pocket" and broke into a thousand pieces in the parking lot?


    I'm sure you were kind of kidding, but that isn't exactly the best business advice I've ever heard.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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  12. #26
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever had any dealings with ASCAP

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Although one sees the "Millionaires many times over" on TV, there are also many "not Millionaires many times over" who _DEPEND_ on being paid for their songwriting efforts to make their house, car, insurance, food note every month.

    I mean, if we're all for giving away other people's property, why not just give the booze away? "Millionaires many times over trying to squeeze more money out of the little people" by selling it.

    Such crap, indeed.
    Not too many cover bands are playing little man's unpaid songs in bars. If so, they are not getting many gigs playing unknown music. Getting gigs as a cover band and keeping bar owners/patrons happy means playing popular music. Give it away? Not how I see it. The real world does not see many people who never buy a CD/MP3 and only enjoy the music by going to see cover bands play that music in local bars. How many times has a signed band's CD been bought b/c someone heard a cover band playing a cover song? I guess that would be the side of the coin that the greedy (those who can afford high-priced lawyers to sue the common folk) do not like to think about and share. Maybe you and I disagree on tangible (booze) vs. non-tangible (music played by local bands) things. To compare the two is apples and oranges to me and not arguable.

    The musicians who DEPEND on money (to buy food or make their $500/month rent payment) are the ones not getting gigs because rich lawyers and musicians are costing them gigs at local bars b/c of this crap. Crap indeed.

    I hate to think of Lars Ulrich who has trouble buying that 30th house on the French Riveria or 132nd Ferrari at his 27th house? That is a DEPENDANCE we all understand.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  13. #27
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever had any dealings with ASCAP

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    I'm sure you were kind of kidding, but that isn't exactly the best business advice I've ever heard.
    You are right, RFS. I should have been clearer on the joking thing!
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  14. #28
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    Re: Anyone ever had any dealings with ASCAP

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966 View Post
    Not too many cover bands are playing little man's unpaid songs in bars.
    I bet there are more "unknown" names on the songwriter credits of popular tunes (that is, tunes that people want to hear bar bands play) being played by cover bands than "Millionaires many times over."

    If so, they are not getting many gigs playing unknown music.
    Many songs aren't written by the artists who perform them. Many songs are written by someone else.. They were lucky to be able to pitch that song to an artist who made it "big."

    You're thinking "stars" and turning this into some sort of silly "class warfare." I'm talking about people who earn their living writing songs, get a fraction of a point on a cut and hoping to do that enough times to turn it into a career. It's not about "bad, bad ASCAP and Millionaires many times over" versus the poor bar owner/bar band dudes. It's about owners of intellectual property getting what they're legally entitled to.

    Getting gigs as a cover band and keeping bar owners/patrons happy means playing popular music.
    People who are not "the artist" (you know, the "Millionaires many times over") have a big part in writing the songs. Yes, sometimes "bands" write their own songs and sometimes solo artists write their own songs but I'd say the vast majority of material is written or co-written by someone who is not a "Millionaire many times over."

    Give it away? Not how I see it. The real world does not see many people who never buy a CD/MP3 and only enjoy the music by going to see cover bands play that music in local bars. How many times has a signed band's CD been bought b/c someone heard a cover band playing a cover song? I guess that would be the side of the coin that the greedy (those who can afford high-priced lawyers to sue the common folk) do not like to think about and share.
    And thus the devaluation of intellectual property and non-appreciation of music continues.

    Maybe you and I disagree on tangible (booze) vs. non-tangible (music played by local bands) things. To compare the two is apples and oranges to me and not arguable.
    It doesn't really matter what you think about the tangibility, it matters that the music has value. The songwriters and IP owners have a COPYRIGHT which extends to live venue reproduction of their music. Whether that's The Doobie Brothers, Sade, The Human League, Martina McBride or Burt Bacharach, they have a right to ask for compensation when their music is being used to make someone else money.

    The musicians who DEPEND on money (to buy food or make their $500/month rent payment) are the ones not getting gigs because rich lawyers and musicians are costing them gigs at local bars b/c of this crap. Crap indeed.
    And if this law doesn't exist, the people who write the songs won't be able to buy food or make their $500/month rent payment. So they'll get day gigs and stop writing songs. Not all songwriters are "Millionaires many times over."

    This is simply a part of doing business. If you want to use someone else's copywritten material, you have to pay for it.

    I hate to think of Lars Ulrich who has trouble buying that 30th house on the French Riveria or 132nd Ferrari at his 27th house? That is a DEPENDANCE we all understand.
    Or a songwriter like me who'd very much like to have the extra hundred bucks or so each month; I'm so "greedy" wanting to be able pay my bills.

    There's more people (not "Millionaires many times over") who are like me than there are "Lars."
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  15. #29
    Member durl's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever had any dealings with ASCAP

    This is pretty cut and dry. Songs are intellectual property that are protected by US copyright laws. People just can't use someone elses copyrighted material for their own profit. The music industry isn't alone in wanting these laws enforced.

    If a bar were to put up a huge TV screen and show movies, charging customers to come see them, no one would be surprised when the lawsuits are filed if they failed to obtain a license. There would be little to no talk about movie studios trying to grab more money. Most would agree that you simply can't charge people to watch a movie when you have no ownership rights.

    Music performances should not be viewed any differently.

  16. #30
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    Re: Anyone ever had any dealings with ASCAP

    Quote Originally Posted by durl View Post
    This is pretty cut and dry. Songs are intellectual property that are protected by US copyright laws. People just can't use someone elses copyrighted material for their own profit. The music industry isn't alone in wanting these laws enforced.

    If a bar were to put up a huge TV screen and show movies, charging customers to come see them, no one would be surprised when the lawsuits are filed if they failed to obtain a license. There would be little to no talk about movie studios trying to grab more money. Most would agree that you simply can't charge people to watch a movie when you have no ownership rights.

    Music performances should not be viewed any differently.

    It is a little different though because the bar isn't charging people to come see the band. They only make money on the food served. This is analogous to FOX and or the NFL charging for the bar showing a football game.

    The easiest solution is probably to pay the licensing fees, knock $10-$15 off the band's pay for the weekend, and take a $20 weekend loss. $30/weekend *50 weeks = $1,500.
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