Turn Off Ads?
Page 5 of 10 FirstFirst 123456789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 150

Thread: Erardi- "Speed and defense": Is the defense as good as we're being told?

  1. #61
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Colorado's eastern plains
    Posts
    11,232

    Re: Erardi- "Speed and defense": Is the defense as good as we're being told?

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    Yeah, speed is one of the least valuable commodities of an OF defender if he takes bad routes and reads the ball off the bat poorly (Taveras ... Freel etc. etc.).
    I agree. Lots and lots of fans would disagree though. Guys like Freel were almost always viewed as good OF defenders based solely on their speed.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #62
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,503

    Re: Erardi- "Speed and defense": Is the defense as good as we're being told?

    Speed is big contributor to range and range is an important attribute for outfielders.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  4. #63
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Cbus
    Posts
    7,042

    Re: Erardi- "Speed and defense": Is the defense as good as we're being told?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    I agree. Lots and lots of fans would disagree though. Guys like Freel were almost always viewed as good OF defenders based solely on their speed.
    Routinely running into immovable objects also helps with that perception.
    What if this wasn't a rhetorical question?

    All models are wrong. Some of them are useful.

  5. #64
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Olathe, KS
    Posts
    13,782

    Re: Erardi- "Speed and defense": Is the defense as good as we're being told?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Speed is big contributor to range and range is an important attribute for outfielders.
    Yes, running fast is nice, but it's important to actually know where you are going.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  6. #65
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Colorado's eastern plains
    Posts
    11,232

    Re: Erardi- "Speed and defense": Is the defense as good as we're being told?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Speed is big contributor to range and range is an important attribute for outfielders.
    No doubt. However, poor reads and bad routes will negate quite a bit of that speed.

  7. #66
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,503

    Re: Erardi- "Speed and defense": Is the defense as good as we're being told?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    No doubt. However, poor reads and bad routes will negate quite a bit of that speed.
    And speed can negate quite a bit of the poor reads and bad routes....

    The fastest player isn't the better defender by default but there is a reason speed is considered a tool.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  8. #67
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Colorado's eastern plains
    Posts
    11,232

    Re: Erardi- "Speed and defense": Is the defense as good as we're being told?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    And speed can negate quite a bit of the poor reads and bad routes....

    The fastest player isn't the better defender by default but there is a reason speed is considered a tool.
    Never said it shouldn't be considered a tool. Just think speedy guys automatically get a rap as good defensive outfielders, regardless of all else.

  9. #68
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky
    Posts
    16,957

    Re: Erardi- "Speed and defense": Is the defense as good as we're being told?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    Never said it shouldn't be considered a tool. Just think speedy guys automatically get a rap as good defensive outfielders, regardless of all else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  10. #69
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Olathe, KS
    Posts
    13,782

    Re: Erardi- "Speed and defense": Is the defense as good as we're being told?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    Never said it shouldn't be considered a tool. Just think speedy guys automatically get a rap as good defensive outfielders, regardless of all else.
    Case in point: Willy Taveras.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  11. #70
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,503

    Re: Erardi- "Speed and defense": Is the defense as good as we're being told?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    Case in point: Willy Taveras.
    Taveras is probably something akin to a neutral defender in center.

    As defense goes that means he should be grouped among the better defenders in the game skill wise. It's just that in the population of only CFers, he's roughly average (though he's been below average as a Rockie). If his routes/reads are awful, then he has his speed to thank for the honor.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  12. #71
    Man Pills
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    24,871

    Re: Erardi- "Speed and defense": Is the defense as good as we're being told?

    I think a real case in point is Norris Hopper. Pretty speedy, terrible defender.

  13. #72
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Colorado's eastern plains
    Posts
    11,232

    Re: Erardi- "Speed and defense": Is the defense as good as we're being told?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Taveras is probably something akin to a neutral defender in center.

    As defense goes that means he should be grouped among the better defenders in the game skill wise. It's just that in the population of only CFers, he's roughly average (though he's been below average as a Rockie). If his routes/reads are awful, then he has his speed to thank for the honor.
    I agree with that. He rated as below average in Colorado because even with his tremendous speed, he couldn't overcome his poor routes/reads in that big outfield. Hopefully the smaller dimensions of GABP help him out in that regard.

  14. #73
    Next Year redsbuckeye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Loveland
    Posts
    436

    Re: Erardi- "Speed and defense": Is the defense as good as we're being told?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Let's supplement those stats with our eyes. Who else other than Highlifeman21 thinks Adam Dunn is a better fielder than Jerry Hairston Jr. in LF?
    I wouldn't say your eyes, my eyes or anyone else's eyes are reliable indicators of ability in the field.

  15. #74
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Olathe, KS
    Posts
    13,782

    Re: Erardi- "Speed and defense": Is the defense as good as we're being told?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Taveras is probably something akin to a neutral defender in center.

    As defense goes that means he should be grouped among the better defenders in the game skill wise. It's just that in the population of only CFers, he's roughly average (though he's been below average as a Rockie). If his routes/reads are awful, then he has his speed to thank for the honor.
    Right, but the general perception of Taveras is that he is a *good* defender, not just adequate.

    His speed makes him better in CF, that point is undeniable. But it still doesn't make him good.

    Also, if he played in a corner OF spot where his speed couldn't cover up his shortcomings, then he might not be a plus defender at all.
    Last edited by Johnny Footstool; 01-29-2009 at 05:19 PM.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  16. #75
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Shelburne Falls, MA
    Posts
    10,057

    Re: Erardi- "Speed and defense": Is the defense as good as we're being told?

    I wouldn't say your eyes, my eyes or anyone else's eyes are reliable indicators of ability in the field.
    Wrong. A good scout who sees enough of a player will be a reliable judge of the player's defensive ability.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25