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Thread: Marvin's analysis of last years draft

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  1. #1
    Member icehole3's Avatar
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    Marvin's analysis of last years draft

    from Bengals.com

    Lewis not kid-ding
    By GEOFF HOBSON
    January 28, 2009
    7 p.m.

    During Wednesday's session with beat reporters, Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis gave a review of the 2008 draft class and concluded that it gave the club more than he thought it would.

    He thinks left tackle Anthony Collins can be a great pro, safety Corey Lynch is going to play "lights out," and defensive tackle Pat Sims "can be as good a player as he thinks he can.":

    First-rounder Keith Rivers started the first seven games with 50 tackles at the Will linebacker before Steelers receiver Hines Ward ended his season with a block that broke his jaw. Second-rounder Jerome Simpson made one catch as a rookie wide receiver plagued by foot and ankle injuries and played in just six games. He also didn't play in the finale even though starting receivers Chad Ocho Cinco and T.J. Houshmandzadeh didn't play, either.

    "With Keith getting injured, you don't get the full effect of things," Lewis said. "With Jerome hurt, we're down two thereUnfortunately when ever Jerome was getting ready to be a part of things, he got hurt He's a key person for us. When you put a second-round draft pick on a player, you expect that player to contribute at some point in his rookie year and be a major contributor in his second season."

    The first of their third-round picks, defensive tackle Pat Sims, didn't make his debut until the sixth game but he started six of the last seven and was a reason the Bengals held foes to less than four yards per carry during the last half of the season.

    "We got more out of Pat Sims than I think we knew we could get. I thought he would be coming into his own this year," Lewis said. "He played through some injuries, he showed some toughness. He had to deal with some family issues and I think he came out of this year understanding what pro football is about, and he kind of got a taste he can be lot better player. I think he can be as good a player as he thinks he can and sometimes guys don't understand that."

    Wide receiver Andre Caldwell really opened up some eyes at the end of the season with his versatility in running, catching and blocking while starting four of the last five games. He even returned a kick for 43 yards.

    "We got what we expected and maybe more. As I looked at the receiver prospects," Lewis said, "if I could have identified a guy, 'Boy this guy is ready to play NFL football,' it was Andre Caldwell and watching his tape from Florida and we got that out of him."

    Collins, the fourth-round tackle, got shoved into the real world when the left tackles in front of him, Levi Jones and Andrew Whitworth, went down in the Nov. 16 tie against the Eagles and he had to start the last six games. The first two, naturally, came against the NFL's top two defenses, and Lewis said he "obviously exceeded expectations."

    "As a kid (he) was way better than advertised," Lewis said. "He's got a chance to be a great pro and one of those tough guys you can build around for a long time."

    Fifth-rounder Jason Shirley, the monstrous 340-pound defensive tackle, got more ink for his legal problems back in Frenso, Calif., than he did for anything he did on the field. His DUI was resolved late in a season he played in just three games and Lewis says his problems are behind him. Shirley had a knock in college for lacking intensity, but Lewis likes how he's responded to the tough love of defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer and line coach Jay Hayes.

    "Not as much as maybe we had hoped to get, but I think now (he) understands what NFL football isThe light is on. Because he wants to be good. Mike Zimmer and Jay climbed up his butt (every practice), so he understands what's ahead for him. He has to have a great offseason. You know what? Maybe we hit a home-run there. That would be big."

    The two sixth-rounders, Lynch and tight end Matt Sherry, got hurt but Lynch flashed before missing the last eight games with a knee injury on an interception from scrimmage and five special teams tackles.

    "I liked the things Corey was doing before he got hurt," Lewis said. "Being a guy that understands football and has the feel for the game like Corey Lynch, I think next year he'll play lights out and really compete hard at being a starting player and we'll be able to give him some roles."

    Sherry underwent season-ending shoulder surgery during training camp, but they saw enough to keep him around on rehab.

    "I think he's going to grow and develop into a bigger man and might be that kind of multi-talented tight end than can receive the ball and be more of a threat in the passing game that we kind of keep looking for," Lewis said. "He has a chance to be like some of these guys that are playing and doing a good job in the passing game and be a threat. A guy that can separate and win on third down, yet gives you the blocking and things you need out of the tight end position based on some of the (pass) protections and things we do if we're going to continue to work with three wide receivers being the primary focus of things."

    Wide receiver Mario Urrutia is the one seventh-rounder who stuck around (defensive end Angelo Craig was cut after camp and ended up in New England at the end of the season), but never got off the practice squad. Lewis likes his 6-5 height, but not the excess of 230 pounds.

    "He got better as the season went on," Lewis said. "He was inconsistent with his hands coming in and by the end of the year I think he caught the ball very well. His focus is to keep his weight down."


    http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=7481

    I think this changes my view a little about who they have on their board, I think their board (needs) maybe

    1. pass rusher
    2. OL
    3. RB
    4. OL
    5. pass rusher



  2. #2
    Member chicoruiz's Avatar
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    Re: Marvin's analysis of last years draft

    Well, he must like Simpson and Caldwell if you believe Pro Football Weekly- They're currently speculating that TJ will sign with Seattle and that Chad may be traded to the Giants at a bargain price.
    "In baseball, you don't know nothin'"...Yogi Berra

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    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
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    Re: Marvin's analysis of last years draft

    Quote Originally Posted by chicoruiz View Post
    Well, he must like Simpson and Caldwell if you believe Pro Football Weekly- They're currently speculating that TJ will sign with Seattle and that Chad may be traded to the Giants at a bargain price.
    Frankly, I think it's time to turn the page on both of those guys. Talented & productive, no doubt. Turn the roster over just a bit more and see if this team can erase some of it's past demons.

    GL

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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Marvin's analysis of last years draft

    Quote Originally Posted by chicoruiz View Post
    Well, he must like Simpson and Caldwell if you believe Pro Football Weekly- They're currently speculating that TJ will sign with Seattle and that Chad may be traded to the Giants at a bargain price.
    Wow that's news! I kinda expected some trade rumblings around Chad and I didn't buy it last year as the cap hit would have been way too big, but now makes a lot more sense for many reasons. But there is no way I would do it for less than a 2nd rounder and I would ask for a 2nd later pick if I took it. A 2nd and a 5th I could live with. But I would shoot for as much as possible and then offer a trade for Anquan Boldin, how about Simpson and the 5th from NY. I wouldn't let TJ get away at all, but would understand it if they did.

    Maybe this is what Marvin means when he says next years team will be a lot different. It sounds like he has layed down the gauntlet, get on the same page or get out.

    As for last years draft I agree with Marvin I like what I have seen from it and frankly I was higher on Simpson than most. I think he is gonna be a pretty good WR.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

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    Re: Marvin's analysis of last years draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Wow that's news! I kinda expected some trade rumblings around Chad and I didn't buy it last year as the cap hit would have been way too big, but now makes a lot more sense for many reasons. But there is no way I would do it for less than a 2nd rounder and I would ask for a 2nd later pick if I took it. A 2nd and a 5th I could live with. But I would shoot for as much as possible and then offer a trade for Anquan Boldin, how about Simpson and the 5th from NY. I wouldn't let TJ get away at all, but would understand it if they did.

    Maybe this is what Marvin means when he says next years team will be a lot different. It sounds like he has layed down the gauntlet, get on the same page or get out.

    As for last years draft I agree with Marvin I like what I have seen from it and frankly I was higher on Simpson than most. I think he is gonna be a pretty good WR.
    Pretty amazing. Marvin gets to remake a team twice in seven seasons when he has had only one winning season and the last three seasons, the record has gotten progressively worse.

    When is the last time a coach has lasted long enough for that.

    But he did win one year under Mike Browns parameters. Maybe that constitutes success for the Bengals.
    "Hyperbole is the greatest thing ever" Redsland

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    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Marvin's analysis of last years draft

    Just imagine, we could have had two first rounders for CJ if not for Mike Brown's stubbornness/inertia. THANKS MIKE!
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Marvin's analysis of last years draft

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    Just imagine, we could have had two first rounders for CJ if not for Mike Brown's stubbornness/inertia. THANKS MIKE!
    What about the salary cap hit?

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    Re: Marvin's analysis of last years draft

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    What about the salary cap hit?
    What are we doing with our salary cap anyway?
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Re: Marvin's analysis of last years draft

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    Just imagine, we could have had two first rounders for CJ if not for Mike Brown's stubbornness/inertia. THANKS MIKE!
    Two 1st round picks for CJ. A entire draft for Ricky Williams. Mike's a proud man. He won't take shortcuts. He wants to earn those four win seasons.
    "Hyperbole is the greatest thing ever" Redsland

  10. #10
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Marvin's analysis of last years draft

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    Just imagine, we could have had two first rounders for CJ if not for Mike Brown's stubbornness/inertia. THANKS MIKE!
    Wasn't potential first round pick? Didn't the Redskins and Chad's performance determine the value of the pick? Just like Green Bay could have gotten a first round pick if the Jets advanced to the super bowl but not will receive a 3rd rounder I believe.

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    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Marvin's analysis of last years draft

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Wasn't potential first round pick? Didn't the Redskins and Chad's performance determine the value of the pick? Just like Green Bay could have gotten a first round pick if the Jets advanced to the super bowl but not will receive a 3rd rounder I believe.
    Perhaps definitely 1 first rounder and then the 2nd could have been a first or second. I think I've got that right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  12. #12
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: Marvin's analysis of last years draft

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    Perhaps definitely 1 first rounder and then the 2nd could have been a first or second. I think I've got that right.
    I'm sure the Skins would've thrown in a 3rd or 4th-rounder too, just for good measure. They treat draft picks like they've got cooties.
    "I can make all the stadiums rock."
    -Air Supply

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    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: Marvin's analysis of last years draft

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    Perhaps definitely 1 first rounder and then the 2nd could have been a first or second. I think I've got that right.
    I think it was a first rounder guaranteed and a third rounder that could have escalated to a first.

    I completely agree on the Saints trade though, of course, given it is Mike Brown, we would have blown it as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Member Z-Fly's Avatar
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    Re: Marvin's analysis of last years draft

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    I think it was a first rounder guaranteed and a third rounder that could have escalated to a first.

    I completely agree on the Saints trade though, of course, given it is Mike Brown, we would have blown it as well.
    Why would he want more draft picks? That is just more money he has to shell out. First rounders aren't cheap.
    WHEN DOES IT STOP!?!?

  15. #15
    Member icehole3's Avatar
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    Re: Marvin's analysis of last years draft

    here's some more from Marvin Giggles, this is from CTrent about the Senior Bowl


    http://www.thelotd.com/ctrent/blog/2...n__senior_bowl

    Last of Marvin -- Senior Bowl

    Lewis' Bengals staff coached the game in 2004 and selected two players who had played in the game in the second round, cornerback Keiwan Ratliff and safety Madieu Williams.

    The first thing I asked was if Lewis relished the opportunity to go down there, but before I could get it out, he said, "I don't want to be there."

    Of course, he meant he'd rather be coaching his team that week in the Super Bowl. However, the Bengals weren't and in that case, he said he enjoyed coaching there

    "I think it's a great opportunity. I totally love the opportunity to be around those kids," Lewis said. "I stood out there with the South team offensive line the other night for about an hour as our coaches were interviewing their players and we had a team exchange. Just being around those guys and spending time around Michael Oher and Eric Wood and some of these guys … It was great. They're great kids and it's really enjoyable to spend the time like that.

    He also talked about LSU offensive lineman Herman Johnson, whose mother was also down there and played a game with Lewis all week. Johnson's mother, Karen, was trying to jinx Lewis all week, touching him and giving him the jinx. Lewis said he'd rub it off and he'd wipe Herman when he saw him to jinx him.

    Lewis also talked about meeting Georgia Tech defensive tackle Vance Walker, whose parents are from Cincinnati.


    "You get to know a little more about the guy," Lewis said.

    Then I asked if he felt pressured to coach there because the Bengals have the smallest scouting department in the league. He brushed that aside.

    "Every coaching staff goes there. I enjoy it because I get to know 100 players, 90 players, that I wouldn't know as well untl a month from now," Lewis said. "I can put a name with a face, some knee-bend with a face, some speed with a face, some athleticism with a face, that I would not know. Because now you have to sit in the stands and it's not like you were when you could be right there. I watched Jason Gilden right there. I watched Jason Gilden compete for three days. I didn't have any reservations in my mind that we wanted that guy on our team."

    In the old days, all the NFL coaches were allowed on the fields during practice, now only the two staffs are permitted to be on the field during practices, the rest of the teams sit in the stands.

    "When you're that up close and personal, to me it makes a difference," Lewis said. "Watching (James) Farrior and those guys when they were down there later on. You've seen these kids who go through, Jason Taylor, who is going to the Hall of Fame. You watched those guys down there and you know these guys are going to fight you tooth-and-nail all the time. It doesn't surprise you when they're successful in the pros. You get a field. Madieu and Keiwan were on the team last time, we drafted them because of their tape, but we got a great feel for them as competitors and football players during that week."

    Lewis said he spent some time around the USC linebackers at the game -- Rey Maualuga, Clay Matthews and Brian Cushing.

    "We've spent a lot of time around them, when they come here you spend a lot of time around them and you want to know if that's the kind of guy you want to bring into your building," Lewis said.

    Lewis also said he hoped the TV coverage, including televised practices on the NFL Network could help the game.

    "The television thing will hopefully bring more players to play. If I can go and my family can watch you play every day, that's pretty cool," Lewis said. "It's like the combine, the NFL Network has made the combine. More guys are running and working out because everyone's watching."



    I dont like when Marvin is doing the Senior Bowl, he's gonna reach for guys who should be drafted in rounds 6 and 7 because he has that gut feeling about a guy. The 2004 draft was chock full of reaches.


    BENGALS 2004 DRAFT CHOICES
    Cincinnati traded the No. 17 pick to Denver for CB Deltha O'Neal and the No. 24 and No. 117 selections. The Bengals later traded the No. 24 pick to St. Louis for the No. 26 and No. 123 choices. Cincinnati also traded RB Corey Dillon to New England for the No. 56 pick.
    Rd. Player Pos. College Sel. #
    1 Chris Perry RB Michigan 26
    2a Keiwan Ratliff CB Florida 49
    2b Madieu Williams S Maryland 56
    3a Caleb Miller LB Arkansas 80
    3b Landon Johnson LB Purdue 96
    4a Matthias Askew DT Michigan St. 114
    4b Robert Geathers DE Georgia 117
    4c Stacy Andrews T Mississippi 123
    5 Maurice Mann WR Nevada 149
    6 Greg Brooks CB Southern Mississippi 183
    7 Casey Bramlet QB Wyoming 218


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