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Thread: Weathers, Reds avoid arbitration with $3.9M deal

  1. #121
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    Re: Weathers, Reds avoid arbitration with $3.9M deal

    Yeah, this loss was on the offense, absolutely positively no question about it. It's inarguable.

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  3. #122
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    Re: Weathers, Reds avoid arbitration with $3.9M deal

    Quote Originally Posted by hebroncougar View Post
    Mike Stanton had two seasons of ERA as LOW as Weathers is right now. Just because he blew a game last night doesn't mean he's washed up. Heck, his ERA his 2.76, and his whip is 1.16. I know his BABIP is low, but give the guy a break.
    I wouldn't even go so far as to say he blew the game. He got the Reds out of the 8th inning and in the ninth a 2 out hit against him scord a run. These things happen.

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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Weathers, Reds avoid arbitration with $3.9M deal

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    I was wondering why Dusty didn't use Cordero in the 9th.

    Probably because even if the Reds took the lead in the 10th the Phillies still had to bat.
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  5. #124
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    Re: Weathers, Reds avoid arbitration with $3.9M deal

    Another huge play in the game was the obvious missed call at first base in the 9th inning. Laynce Nix was clearly safe. Not sure what the umpire was looking at there. The Reds should have had the lead off man on first base with the pitcher working out of the stretch.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  6. #125
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Weathers, Reds avoid arbitration with $3.9M deal

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    How was he misused last night? The guy had a bad outing. He is allowed to have a hiccup. He has been realy good this year.
    He's not a nails 8th inning guy. He's more suited for the 6th or 7th inning. In NO WAY should be counted on to pitch more than one inning. He doesn't have any stuff, and relies on luck, which has been illustrated in this thread. Everyone got so excited about the season he was having because he relies on luck, and now the luck is starting to turn on him. He has no out pitch, and his slider, even when he doesn't back it up to the middle of the plate, has no major bite to it anymore. Masset is a much better 8th inning RH option, as he misses bats, and doesn't walk as many batters. He is on the rise in his career, while Weathers is clearly on the decline in his career. Dusty has it in his head that Weathers is the perfect set up man though, so that is what we will see for the rest of the season, and we will see his numbers continue to regress to the norms, which could be scary once those hits really start falling.

  7. #126
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    Re: Weathers, Reds avoid arbitration with $3.9M deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    He's not a nails 8th inning guy. He's more suited for the 6th or 7th inning. In NO WAY should be counted on to pitch more than one inning. He doesn't have any stuff, and relies on luck, which has been illustrated in this thread. Everyone got so excited about the season he was having because he relies on luck, and now the luck is starting to turn on him. He has no out pitch, and his slider, even when he doesn't back it up to the middle of the plate, has no major bite to it anymore. Masset is a much better 8th inning RH option, as he misses bats, and doesn't walk as many batters. He is on the rise in his career, while Weathers is clearly on the decline in his career. Dusty has it in his head that Weathers is the perfect set up man though, so that is what we will see for the rest of the season, and we will see his numbers continue to regress to the norms, which could be scary once those hits really start falling.
    I think it is a misrepresentation to say Weathers doesn't have any stuff and relies on luck. If that was the case he would have been out of the league years ago. Granted he won't blow anyone away with his pitches, but the guy knows how to paint the corners.
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  8. #127
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    Re: Weathers, Reds avoid arbitration with $3.9M deal

    Weathers is largely a guy who relies upon his defense.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Weathers, Reds avoid arbitration with $3.9M deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    He's not a nails 8th inning guy. He's more suited for the 6th or 7th inning. In NO WAY should be counted on to pitch more than one inning. He doesn't have any stuff, and relies on luck, which has been illustrated in this thread. Everyone got so excited about the season he was having because he relies on luck, and now the luck is starting to turn on him. He has no out pitch, and his slider, even when he doesn't back it up to the middle of the plate, has no major bite to it anymore. Masset is a much better 8th inning RH option, as he misses bats, and doesn't walk as many batters. He is on the rise in his career, while Weathers is clearly on the decline in his career. Dusty has it in his head that Weathers is the perfect set up man though, so that is what we will see for the rest of the season, and we will see his numbers continue to regress to the norms, which could be scary once those hits really start falling.
    He has let up runs in 4 of his last 17 appearances. I am sure that many relievers would love to hae that stat.

  10. #129
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Weathers, Reds avoid arbitration with $3.9M deal

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    He has let up runs in 4 of his last 17 appearances. I am sure that many relievers would love to hae that stat.
    How many times did he allow inherited runners to score? How many times did other pitchers get him out of jams? I don't know the answers to these questions, but looking at how many runs a reliever is charged with is a pretty faulty stat. Although he's not charged with all of them, he technically gave up four runs on ONE SWING to one Albert Pujols (in arguably the biggest game of the year) because he was brought in despite being absolutely owned by Pujols. And do you think he will allow 4 runs in next 17 appearances? Or would you say that he's been VERY fortunate to only have given up 4 runs.

  11. #130
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    Re: Weathers, Reds avoid arbitration with $3.9M deal

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    I think it is a misrepresentation to say Weathers doesn't have any stuff and relies on luck. If that was the case he would have been out of the league years ago. Granted he won't blow anyone away with his pitches, but the guy knows how to paint the corners.
    The majority of successful middle relievers rely on luck and defense. It is not a slight to say that of a pitcher. It's just an accurate description.

    If you throw strikes, and let the batters make contact, you will be successful as a middle reliever in the majors. One out of three will get a hit, based on luck alone. If you don't walk anyone, most of the time, no one will score in an inning. It takes more than two hits, or at least one extra base hit for the other team to score, if you don't walk anyone.

    That is what Weather relies on. He is putting his faith in his defense and letting luck play itself out. Most of the time that will yield good results.

    However, that is not the philosophy a setup man or closer should have. He needs to be able to get outs (K's) when he needs them, and not rely on luck. That is why I think Weathers needs to pitch more in the 6th inning than the 8th.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  12. #131
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    Re: Weathers, Reds avoid arbitration with $3.9M deal

    That's a great philosophy, but not one all successful teams employ. Many playoff and World Series teams use a veteran arm or two as set-up guys or closers who rely more on guile and less on stuff.

    Weathers does use guile, location, and everything else he can to get the job done. For the most part-- this season and over his Red career-- he has done just that.

    He does not look good doing it at times. As a result, he gets grief.
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  13. #132
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    Re: Weathers, Reds avoid arbitration with $3.9M deal

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Weathers is largely a guy who relies upon his defense.
    Weathers is largely dependent on defense and IMHO has been very lucky.

    Maybe the chickens are coming home to roost.

  14. #133
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    Re: Weathers, Reds avoid arbitration with $3.9M deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    Weathers is largely dependent on defense and IMHO has been very lucky.

    Maybe the chickens are coming home to roost.
    Well what we hope doesn't come home to roost is his BABIP/HR:FB/LOB%.....
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  15. #134
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    Re: Weathers, Reds avoid arbitration with $3.9M deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    How many times did he allow inherited runners to score? How many times did other pitchers get him out of jams? I don't know the answers to these questions, but looking at how many runs a reliever is charged with is a pretty faulty stat.
    Is it as faulty as bringing up that possibility and not backing it up? Here's another stat...batters had a .502 OPS against him in June. So, on average, he faced someone worse than Willy Taveras every at-bat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Although he's not charged with all of them, he technically gave up four runs on ONE SWING to one Albert Pujols (in arguably the biggest game of the year) because he was brought in despite being absolutely owned by Pujols.
    Nothing to be ashamed about. Pujols is a pretty good ballplayer, last time I checked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    And do you think he will allow 4 runs in next 17 appearances? Or would you say that he's been VERY fortunate to only have given up 4 runs.
    Probably somewhere in between. He's been a solid reliever.

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    Re: Weathers, Reds avoid arbitration with $3.9M deal

    I've been focused on the production of the Reds outfield this year. Taveras, Bruce, Nix. Just a guess, but I doubt there is any outfield in major league baseball with so little offensive production this year.

    David Weathers isn't perfect, but he really doesn't warrant a thread criticizing him. He's been a mainstay for 4 or 5 years now and generally does very well. Rhodes, Weathers and Cordero have been the backbone of the team this year IMO.

    The Reds' offense -- particularly in the outfield -- is so poor that it overwhelms any possible complaint we may have about a set up man like Weathers.


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