Warner's taken some awful franchises to the Super Bowl. Without Brady, the Pats go 11-5. How bad do you think the Cardinals would be without Warner? Neither St Luois or Arizona were strong defensively. The offense is what carried them. Brady's NE teams were much stronger defensively.Originally Posted by RichRed
When you really look at it, I think they can't keep him out, although I too am troubled by his years as a backup and in the AFL.
Without Brady THIS year the Pats go 11-5. Their schedule was extremely week, and they still had a ton of talent. However, if you take Brady off of any of those championship teams, I don't think they get close to a title. He was working with Deion Branch, Troy Brown, David Patten, Antoine Smith, an older Corey Dillon, etc. I'm not trying to diminish Warner's accomplishments one bit, but I just think the "he's a Hall of Famer" argument is a media creation that has picked up waaaaayyyyyyyyy too much speed.
Did Peyton kick your dog or something?
When I see the 2016 Reds, I see a 100 loss team and no direction.
Pittsburgh Parade
http://www.post-gazette.com/multimedia/?videoid=101504
* Attended the 1990 and 2010 Reds Division clinchers *
Go 76ers, Go Steelers and Go Bucks
That was flat out awesome and thank you for posting the link!
"The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer
"The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
--Ted Williams
Never been enamored with Payton or the Mannings. Payton put up gaudy numbers everywhere he went but always stumbled with the big games. He never could beat the Gators in college. He couldn't beat the Pats when it counted. I had always thought that he would not win a Super Bowl but he proved me wrong on that one (although Rexy helped him out considerably).
Eli got drafted #1 because of his last name. He was hyped throughout college because of his last name. He did have a good super bowl year but his NFL career has been lackluster. To be honest I get sick and tired of hearing about the first family of QB's.
Jason Witlock had a good article about Warner a week or so ago. The Mannings have always been the golden arm golden boys. They have been hyped since Payton became top high school QB recruit. On the other hand Warner is a nobody. Played at Northern Iowa and as a backup in the AFL. His rise to fame is probably the most unlikely I have ever heard of if you think about it.
Eli did me in when he refused to go to the Chargers. I thought that was very pompous of him.
I can understand you getting sick of the Manning hype, just as I get sick with the Brett Favre hype. But you can't make one argument for Warner, and then ignore it for Peyton. The Colts were absolutely atrocious before Manning showed up, and he lifted the franchise from the abyss. And Eli is probably a tad overrated, I'll give you that, and he's not as good as Kurt Warner. But he's still a very good NFL QB, and those aren't all that easy to find, just ask the Ravens pre-Joe Flacco(and I'm not convinced that Flacco is all that great either).
Didn't the Colts appear in the AFC championship only a few years before Manning was drafted? I had also thought the Colts began to rebuild with Manning. They weren't necessarily atrocious but entering a process of rebuilding. Payton is a great QB and will be in the HOF as quickly as possible.I can understand you getting sick of the Manning hype, just as I get sick with the Brett Favre hype. But you can't make one argument for Warner, and then ignore it for Peyton. The Colts were absolutely atrocious before Manning showed up, and he lifted the franchise from the abyss. And Eli is probably a tad overrated, I'll give you that, and he's not as good as Kurt Warner. But he's still a very good NFL QB, and those aren't all that easy to find, just ask the Ravens pre-Joe Flacco
The reason I asked if Warner would be a HOF if his last name was Manning is because of the Manning hype machine. This started well before Eli was a good qb, he was quite awful when the NFL began to pimp him. He was still had under a 50% completion percentage when the NFL began to use both Eli and Payton as the face of the NFL.
The Colts were 3-13 in 1997 the year before pEyton got there and he was drafted #1 overall so I think they were atrocious before he got there.
When I see the 2016 Reds, I see a 100 loss team and no direction.
The Colts made the AFC championship game the year the Cowboys beat the Steelers in the Super Bowl, which was Super Bowl 30, and that was maybe 1996 or so? So it hadn't been forever, but they were coming off back to back 3-13 seasons, and the year before that they were 9-7. So they were clearly on the decline, and if Peyton never shows up, I'm not so sure they ever pull out of it.
As for Eli, he's been treated unfairly. It takes time for QB's to develop. A lot of the great QB's were horrible at first. But they all had time to develop because their last name wasn't Manning and they weren't playing in New York. So while the last name certainly helps him in many aspects, it also works against him, IMO.
I think longevity matters more in MLB than the NFL. NFL careers are shorter and there are places for both longevity guys (Art Monk) and short but brilliant careers (Sayers).
Also, when I try to pick out HOF's, I always play the same game. I ask myself, "Who would I rather have, x or y?" I played the game and here were my overall results w/ QB's over the last 20 years.
Guys I would take before Warner
Manning
Brady
Marino
Elway
Montana
Favre (maybe...depends on the team around him)
Young
Guys I would take after Warner
Roethlisberger (Depends on the O-Line...)
Aikman
McNair
Palmer
McNabb
Brees
Moon
Esiason
Bledsoe
That puts him right on the edge.
Variatio delectat - Cicero
Posting Permissions
|
Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please. |
Reply With Quote