Should Hall let Pete and the Junkies in the Hall?

[icehole3]

They should either forgive them all or forget them all.

[Highlifeman21]

There's a big difference between steroids and betting on baseball

Guys on the juice will eventually get in

Pete may never get in, and if he does he won't be alive when it happens

[puca]

Rose was not banned from baseball or the HOF because he cheated.

He bet on baseball. By betting on baseball he became indebted to people who had a vested interest in the outcome of baseball games. He did all of this while in a position to directly effect the outcome of many, many baseball games. Connect the dots and try and understand why it is MUCH more serious than taking PEDS (including greenies), doctoring a bat, doctoring baseball, rubbing out the batter's box, running outside the baseline, peeking at the catcher, deking a baserunner, or stealing signs.

[redsmetz]

Rose was not banned from baseball or the HOF because he cheated.

He bet on baseball. By betting on baseball he became indebted to people who had a vested interest in the outcome of baseball games. He did all of this while in a position to directly effect the outcome of many, many baseball games. Connect the dots and try and understand why it is MUCH more serious than taking PEDS (including greenies), doctoring a bat, doctoring baseball, rubbing out the batter's box, running outside the baseline, peeking at the catcher, deking a baserunner, or stealing signs.

I don't disagree with this, but think Rose should be permitted in the Hall (as should Joe Jackson). The premise of the original post though, suggesting that those who took steroids are junkies is laughable. We're talking a sport whose players have boozed it up, popped pills and now used steroids or HDH. When the entire history is cleaned up (and it can't be), then lets get all high and mighty about "junkies".

[Always Red]

As long as Gaylord Perry is in the Hall of Fame, the doors can remain open to nearly anyone who can put the proper numbers on the back of his baseball card. Anything else is hypocrisy.

I think Rose will be voted in by the Veteran's Committee long after he dies. Probably Jackson will, too, maybe at the same time.

I think the steroid era guys will eventually all walk free, grandfathered in.

Just my opinion.

[Strikes Out Looking]

Put in Shoeless Joe and then we can talk about the rest of them.

[deltachi8]

this again?

[westofyou]

Pete Rose is not only the hit king he's the games most famous liar and Cincinnati's favorite son.

[NJReds]

Let'em all in, I say. Just give an accurate history. Pete Rose's entry should say banned from baseball for gambling. ARod's should say "admitted steriod user."

Someone on ESPN radio this morning said the Hall of Fame "is a museum, not the Vatican." How can you have a museum about the history of the game without the hits leader, HR leader, etc.?

What about other cheaters? The guys who used speed in the 60s and 70s and 80s?
Scuffers, spitballers and admitted cheaters like Gaylord Perry?

Ty Cobb is one of the vilest people on the planet, yet he is celebrated in the HOF.

[Hoosier Red]

This is perhaps the best sumnation of my feelings on the subject;
http://rossdouthat.theatlantic.com/a...r_the_hall.php

I don't know exactly where steroid use should sit on the hierarchy of sins against the game: I think it's worse than throwing spitballs and not as bad as throwing games, but how much worse and how much less noxious I'm not entirely sure. But I do know that to date, the only otherwise-deserving players who've been denied entry to the Hall - Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson - have been those who were guilty of infractions that got them banned them from the game for life. Now perhaps steroid users should be banned for life, but the fact remains that A-Rod and others stand accused of violating a rule that carried no penalty save treatment at the time that they (and dozens if not hundreds of other players whose names haven't been leaked) broke it, and that today only gets you banned outright if you're a three-time offender. And I think it's a good rule of thumb that if you're allowed to continue playing major league baseball after committing a given infraction, you shouldn't be disqualified - informally or formally - from its Hall of Fame.

[RedsBaron]

This is perhaps the best sumnation of my feelings on the subject;
http://rossdouthat.theatlantic.com/a...r_the_hall.php

I don't know exactly where steroid use should sit on the hierarchy of sins against the game: I think it's worse than throwing spitballs and not as bad as throwing games, but how much worse and how much less noxious I'm not entirely sure. [/B]

In my opinion, betting on games (Pete Rose's known offense) is not as bad as knowing others are throwing games and doing nothing (perhaps Joe Jackson's offense), which in turn is not as bad as actually throwing the games (the offense of Eddie Cicotte and most of the other Black Sox).
In my further opinion, steroid use is worse than taking greenies which is worse than doctoring the bat or the baseball which is worse than stealing signs, etc. I do not buy the argument that because Gaylord Perry doctored the baseball this means that steroid use unquestionably should not matter. To me it is the same as saying there is no difference between jaywalking and armed robbery merely because both are against the law.

[cincrazy]

Let them all in. You're honoring their on the field accomplishments. Yes, Pete bet on baseball. And yes, Barry and Big Mac and A-Rod and the Rocket and so on altered themselves to gain an edge. But it is what it is. Put them in the all and acknowledge their errors. But to leave them out is silly, IMO. I respect the opinion of the people that think they shouldn't get in, because I thought that way at one point in time. But as Jayson Stark said, the all time hit leader will be out of the Hall, the all time home run leader, one of the greatest right-handed pitchers of all time... etc. etc. I want to be able to take my kids there 20 years from now and say "This is who they are, this is what they did, and here's what they accomplished." We can't pretend that it never happened. It can be a good learning tool, IMO. "See this guy? HE screwed up. Don't let the same happen to you."

[Razor Shines]

Let them all in. You're honoring their on the field accomplishments. Yes, Pete bet on baseball. And yes, Barry and Big Mac and A-Rod and the Rocket and so on altered themselves to gain an edge. But it is what it is. Put them in the all and acknowledge their errors. But to leave them out is silly, IMO. I respect the opinion of the people that think they shouldn't get in, because I thought that way at one point in time. But as Jayson Stark said, the all time hit leader will be out of the Hall, the all time home run leader, one of the greatest right-handed pitchers of all time... etc. etc. I want to be able to take my kids there 20 years from now and say "This is who they are, this is what they did, and here's what they accomplished." We can't pretend that it never happened. It can be a good learning tool, IMO. "See this guy? HE screwed up. Don't let the same happen to you."

But at the same time he's still in the most hallowed of places for his profession. Did "him screwing up" really have any consequences?

For the record I still don't know how I feel about letting theses guys in or not. I understand both sides of the argument, and both sides have a strong argument. I think I feel that Pete and Shoeless Joe are in a different group than Barroid and Aroid, and right now I probably lean more toward letting in the Roiders over the guys who bet on the game.

[mbgrayson]

I won't vote in this poll, because i would let Rose in and not the steroid users.

What Rose did, betting on baseball while managing the Reds, was wrong and should keep him out of the game for good. Why should we ever take a chance that he is again violating the betting rules while in uniform?

However, to me the Hall of Fame is not about the players character or morals, it is about whether that player was one of the best of his era. Ty Cobb was a nasty man in most respects, and was hated by his peers. There was one fairly credible allegation involving Cobb being involved in a scandal where a game was actually thrown. However, he was also one of the best players of all time.

I feel that Rose fits in the category of one of the best players ever. I know, he is a liar and a compulsive gambler. But to me, his accomplishments while playing justify inclusion in the HOF.

The steroid guys put up stats that I simply don't trust. Some, like Bonds , would be HOF worthy based on what they did before they were on performance enhancing drugs. Others, like ARod, may have also accomplished much after they quit. But how can we ever know what portion of their records were tainted?

With Rose, we know that his gambling and lying did not taint his actual playing baseball, or the resulting records. We cannot say the same about Bonds, Canseco, McGuire, or ARod.

[WebScorpion]

Shoeless Joe Jackson was given a lifetime ban for his infractions (real or perceived) and his life is over. I would induct him now.

Pete Rose knew what he was doing when he bet on baseball and he signed an agreement to his lifetime ban. I would induct him in the Hall of Fame the first year after his passing.

As far as I can tell, one of the reasons (probably not the MAIN reason) behind using steroids is to attain numbers sufficient for Hall of Fame induction. I would not want to encourage such actions and so would subject them to the same treatment...posthumous induction.

So basically, you don't give up the right to be in the Hall, you just give up the right to be there at the celebration.