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View Poll Results: Should Hall let Pete and the Junkies in the Hall?

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  • Hall should forgive them all

    18 46.15%
  • Dont let any of the cheaters in, keep the Hall clean

    11 28.21%
  • could care less, disgusted by all of it

    10 25.64%
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Thread: Should Hall let Pete and the Junkies in the Hall?

  1. #16
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Should Hall let Pete and the Junkies in the Hall?

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    Let them all in. You're honoring their on the field accomplishments. Yes, Pete bet on baseball. And yes, Barry and Big Mac and A-Rod and the Rocket and so on altered themselves to gain an edge. But it is what it is. Put them in the all and acknowledge their errors. But to leave them out is silly, IMO. I respect the opinion of the people that think they shouldn't get in, because I thought that way at one point in time. But as Jayson Stark said, the all time hit leader will be out of the Hall, the all time home run leader, one of the greatest right-handed pitchers of all time... etc. etc. I want to be able to take my kids there 20 years from now and say "This is who they are, this is what they did, and here's what they accomplished." We can't pretend that it never happened. It can be a good learning tool, IMO. "See this guy? HE screwed up. Don't let the same happen to you."
    But at the same time he's still in the most hallowed of places for his profession. Did "him screwing up" really have any consequences?

    For the record I still don't know how I feel about letting theses guys in or not. I understand both sides of the argument, and both sides have a strong argument. I think I feel that Pete and Shoeless Joe are in a different group than Barroid and Aroid, and right now I probably lean more toward letting in the Roiders over the guys who bet on the game.

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  3. #17
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Should Hall let Pete and the Junkies in the Hall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    This is perhaps the best sumnation of my feelings on the subject;
    http://rossdouthat.theatlantic.com/a...r_the_hall.php

    I don't know exactly where steroid use should sit on the hierarchy of sins against the game: I think it's worse than throwing spitballs and not as bad as throwing games, but how much worse and how much less noxious I'm not entirely sure. [/B]
    In my opinion, betting on games (Pete Rose's known offense) is not as bad as knowing others are throwing games and doing nothing (perhaps Joe Jackson's offense), which in turn is not as bad as actually throwing the games (the offense of Eddie Cicotte and most of the other Black Sox).
    In my further opinion, steroid use is worse than taking greenies which is worse than doctoring the bat or the baseball which is worse than stealing signs, etc. I do not buy the argument that because Gaylord Perry doctored the baseball this means that steroid use unquestionably should not matter. To me it is the same as saying there is no difference between jaywalking and armed robbery merely because both are against the law.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  4. #18
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Should Hall let Pete and the Junkies in the Hall?

    Quote Originally Posted by WebScorpion View Post
    Shoeless Joe Jackson was given a lifetime ban for his infractions (real or perceived) and his life is over. I would induct him now.

    Pete Rose knew what he was doing when he bet on baseball and he signed an agreement to his lifetime ban. I would induct him in the Hall of Fame the first year after his passing.

    As far as I can tell, one of the reasons (probably not the MAIN reason) behind using steroids is to attain numbers sufficient for Hall of Fame induction. I would not want to encourage such actions and so would subject them to the same treatment...posthumous induction.

    So basically, you don't give up the right to be in the Hall, you just give up the right to be there at the celebration.
    Can you imagine the HOF induction ceremonies of Rose or Bonds or Clemens?
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  5. #19
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Should Hall let Pete and the Junkies in the Hall?

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    I don't doubt you but where did you hear this?? What did they find?
    Hustle: The Myth, Life, and Lies of Pete Rose Author: Michael Sokolove

    Rose was investigated by Harry Fitzgibbon who had investigated Denny McClain, Pete had numerous gambling debts for horse racing and bookies, he was tipped off by a local cop and the investigation was "Open" for 11 years until he (Fitzgibbon) retired. The Rub was Fitzgibbon was Reds fan and he couldn't get firm info on Rose from local bookies, hence the open investigation for 11 years. The Reds knew and Wagner even went as far as commenting in 1978 that he was afraid teh Rose would end up with some broken limbs once he retired.

  6. #20
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Should Hall let Pete and the Junkies in the Hall?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Rose was investigated by Harry Fitzgibbon who had investigated Denny McClain, Pete had numerous gambling debts for horse racing and bookies, he was tipped off by a local cop and the investigation was "Open" for 11 years until he (Fitzgibbon) retired. The Rub was Fitzgibbon was Reds fan and he couldn't get firm info on Rose from local bookies, hence the open investigation for 11 years. The Reds knew and Wagner even went as far as commenting in 1978 that he was afraid teh Rose would end up with some broken limbs once he retired.
    Pete even met his first wife, Karolyn, at a race track in 1963. Gambling was a way of life for Rose from the beginning.

  7. #21
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Should Hall let Pete and the Junkies in the Hall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    Pete even met his first wife, Karolyn, at a race track in 1963. Gambling was a way of life for Rose from the beginning.
    Correct, and Hutchinson asked him to quit frequenting the track in 1963 or 1964, Pete's childhood was played out at the track with his Uncle IIRC.

  8. #22
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Should Hall let Pete and the Junkies in the Hall?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Hustle: The Myth, Life, and Lies of Pete Rose Author: Michael Sokolove

    Rose was investigated by Harry Fitzgibbon who had investigated Denny McClain, Pete had numerous gambling debts for horse racing and bookies, he was tipped off by a local cop and the investigation was "Open" for 11 years until he (Fitzgibbon) retired. The Rub was Fitzgibbon was Reds fan and he couldn't get firm info on Rose from local bookies, hence the open investigation for 11 years. The Reds knew and Wagner even went as far as commenting in 1978 that he was afraid teh Rose would end up with some broken limbs once he retired.
    Was it only horse racing they were looking into or did they have suspicion he was betting on baseball to?
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  9. #23
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Should Hall let Pete and the Junkies in the Hall?

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    Was it only horse racing they were looking into or did they have suspicion he was betting on baseball to?
    Bookie debts were the real issue, they worry about you becoming encumbered to them, I don't think the horse racing was the main issue, just a slice of the pie. Now he wasn't the first player who had trouble with MLB and the ponies (Hornsby, McGraw come to mind) but they were worried how far it reached into the underground of the Cincinnati gambling scene and the fact that it was Pete's hometown made digging up dirt harder to come by.

  10. #24
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Should Hall let Pete and the Junkies in the Hall?

    I believe that in Sokolove's book he writes about Rose telling sports writer Earl Lawson something to the effect that since he didn't smoke or drink it made it okay for him to gamble and chase women.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  11. #25
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Should Hall let Pete and the Junkies in the Hall?

    Where's the "Junkies yes, Rose no" button?
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  12. #26
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Should Hall let Pete and the Junkies in the Hall?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Where's the "Junkies yes, Rose no" button?
    That's precisely the button that I was looking for.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  13. #27
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Should Hall let Pete and the Junkies in the Hall?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Where's the "Junkies yes, Rose no" button?
    That reality doesn't get play in the Queen City.

  14. #28
    smells of rich mahogany deltachi8's Avatar
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    Re: Should Hall let Pete and the Junkies in the Hall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    That's precisely the button that I was looking for.
    yep, me too.
    Nothing to see here. Please disperse.

  15. #29
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Should Hall let Pete and the Junkies in the Hall?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    That reality doesn't get play in the Queen City.
    But you can prove Pete Rose threw games. He runs around the country insisting he didn't ... and he's a pathological liar.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  16. #30
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Should Hall let Pete and the Junkies in the Hall?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Where's the "Junkies yes, Rose no" button?
    So the tainted on-field accomplishments of the junkies are fine, and the fact that they broke an existing rule is fine?
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful


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