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Thread: Thornton Blogs on pick #6

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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Thornton Blogs on pick #6

    John Thornton has his own blog, don't know how many of you knew about this. However he offers his opinion on what to do at #6. I am posting it in part because I happen to agree with most of what he is saying. However I do find it interesting that he even has an opinion since he is a FA and has time on his hands to worry about the Bengals. A silent promise from the Bengals to bring him back or is he retiring or what? He certainly doesn't sound like someone who expects to be on another team in a few weeks/months. I think he'll be back to backup Sims & Peko.

    That is however a side note to this as I am interested in talking more about the selection. Like I said I agree with him for the most part but have other reasons as well for not going OT in the 1st, unless of course the one guy who is a consensus (among "gurus") top 10 pick drops to us in Andre Smith. All the other OT's are seemingly post top 10 selections let alone #6. Anyway here is his opinion.

    John Thornton Blog

    February 10, 2009
    And with the 6th pick.......
    I was talking to a buddy(NFL employee) today about a topic he heard on some local sportstalk shows here in Cincinnati. He was pretty irritated because fans here in Cincinnati were opposed to taking a WR with the 6th pick in the NFL Draft. We got into a pretty good debate about who we thought the team should take with the pick. In the middle of the conversation I said that I wished I had a recorder to put this on my website. It was pretty good. Anyway, I will bring you bits and pieces of the debate and you can chime in to let me know what you think. Today's debate is going to be the case of drafting an Offensive Tackle with the 6th pick.


    My take? I'm not in favor of it. Here's why. As of right now, the Bengals would line up Anthony Collins at LT. Andrew Whitworth at LG. The center position is open and will be a position that gets upgraded. Bobbie Williams holds down the RG position, and the RT position is vacant due to the knee injury to Stacey Andrews. And he is a free agent so who knows if the Bengals will offer him a contract. So you have two spots open on the OL. I'm not in favor of filling either of those spots with the sixth pick in the draft. Why? Because if you are going to draft a RT in that spot, he better be good enough to start right away. And not only good enough to start, but be able to play in this division and block these 3-4 defenses. The 6th pick is just too high to pick someone based on need. So, assuming that RT is the position the Bengals are going to be looking for, then they should wait until after round one to find that guy. I believe Anthony Collins is good enough and hungry enough to be the guy at LT for the Bengals so I'm not so sure that they will be looking to replace him.


    Looking at playoff teams Right Tackles and where they were drafted.

    Ravens- Willie Anderson (1st-10th pick)


    Steelers- Willie Colon (6th)


    Colts- Ryan Diem (4th)


    Titans- Dave Stewart (4th)


    Chargers- Jeromy Clary (6th)


    Dolphins- Vernon Carey (1st-19th pick)


    Cardinals- Levi Brown (1st-5th pick)


    Panthers- Jeff Otah (1st-19th pick)


    Eagles- Jon Runyan (4th)


    Giants- Kareem McKenzie (3rd)


    Vikings- Ryan Cook (2nd)


    Falcons- Tyson Clabo (undrafted)
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: Thornton Blogs on pick #6

    That actually makes sense to me, but if they don't take a tackle then they need to go defense. I'm starting to think Maualuga might be the best case scenario. I will be pretty irritated if they actually take Crabtree, even though I think he'll be a great NFL player.
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    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Thornton Blogs on pick #6

    They better trade down if they want Maualuga, otherwise they are wasting their draft position.

    I wish Marvin and Mikey put as much thought into the draft that Thornton does.

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    Re: Thornton Blogs on pick #6

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    They better trade down if they want Maualuga, otherwise they are wasting their draft position.

    I wish Marvin and Mikey put as much thought into the draft that Thornton does.
    I have a feeling Maualuga will rise by the time the draft gets here. The cream has a way of rising to the top more often than not. But if he doesn't I wouldn't mind them trading back in the draft to get him if they were intent on doing so. Plus they could add some picks in a draft that is very, very deep.

    Basically I don't care how they do it just that they do it, if they feel the same way about him as I do. Is he the 6th best player in this draft or the 15th, 20th, 25th? I happen to feel he is much closer to the #6 player in the draft regardless of draft day "value". The gurus want you to draft according to what said player is worth today and not what he is realistically likely to be 5, 10 yrs from now. They want you to put a ceiling on every guy and draft according to it, which is why we always see so many reaches (busts) in the top 10 (at least in hindsight). What I say is get some foresight and figure out in advance that Rey is the 6th-9th (or better) best/most valuable player in the draft, and then go draft him.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

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    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Thornton Blogs on pick #6

    I agree. He's a stud. I just have seen him ranked towards the bottom of the 1st. I wouldn't be surprised if he moves up as well. He and Rivers would make for a dominating pair of LB's.

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    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Thornton Blogs on pick #6

    Even if it is technically a "reach" in the eyes of the "experts", I'd rather draft a guy like Rey who you know will be quality for many seasons to come.

    I too believe Rey's stock will rise b/f draft day.

    Would I feel confident that he'll still be on the board if we traded down to, say, #15? No, I wouldn't, and how much would we gain from dropping those nine spots and is it worth it if we lose out on the top-end player that we really want?
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    15 game winner Danny Serafini's Avatar
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    Re: Thornton Blogs on pick #6

    Interesting that Thornton didn't even mention Levi Jones in that OL discussion.

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    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: Thornton Blogs on pick #6

    I've not been on the Rey bandwagon for two reasons:

    1. We spent a pick last year at linebacker. I liked the Rivers pick since Sedrick Ellis and Glenn Dorsey were off the board and we needed the best available defensive player we could get.

    2. Linebacker on defense in the NFL is the equivalent of a wideout on offense. They are good to have, but for the most part are a dime a dozen.

    If the Bengals are going to throw away a pick on a player not likely to make an impact in turning the team around, they might as well draft Crabtree. At least with Chad and TJ likely gone Carson will need somebody to throw to.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
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    Re: Thornton Blogs on pick #6

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    I've not been on the Rey bandwagon for two reasons:

    1. We spent a pick last year at linebacker. I liked the Rivers pick since Sedrick Ellis and Glenn Dorsey were off the board and we needed the best available defensive player we could get.

    2. Linebacker on defense in the NFL is the equivalent of a wideout on offense. They are good to have, but for the most part are a dime a dozen.

    If the Bengals are going to throw away a pick on a player not likely to make an impact in turning the team around, they might as well draft Crabtree. At least with Chad and TJ likely gone Carson will need somebody to throw to.
    This is where we disagree, LB's are the playmakers of the NFL game. Yes all parts are important but if you are soild and sound both in front of and behind them then it allows those LB's to show off their skillset which is when plays start being made. You really don't get a good sense of how important they are until you are solid everywhere else. That said the front 4 isn't the best however the current DL has 4 starting players which means that's who we are going with. The secondary is also solid, time to put another LB into the mix and one who is an impact player. This is the type of intimidator that you build a defense around. Basically the Samoan Ray Lewis.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

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    Re: Thornton Blogs on pick #6

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    Even if it is technically a "reach" in the eyes of the "experts", I'd rather draft a guy like Rey who you know will be quality for many seasons to come.

    I too believe Rey's stock will rise b/f draft day.

    Would I feel confident that he'll still be on the board if we traded down to, say, #15? No, I wouldn't, and how much would we gain from dropping those nine spots and is it worth it if we lose out on the top-end player that we really want?
    Honestly I don't think he'd be there at #15 but if he were yeah it would be well worth it. 9 spots from #6 to #15 would get you at least a 2nd and a 4th I'm thinking.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Thornton Blogs on pick #6

    WMR, I have to disagree with you about the LB position. It all starts up front. Run stuffing DTs and pass rushing DEs, that is where the playmakers reside. I like Maualuga, but I don't want to spend a top 6 pick on him, when you have players available that fill needs, and likely qualify as best player available as well. I would rather have an OT with the first pick, and James Laurinitis with the second pick, provided he slides, than Maualuga and the Bengals typical crapshoot of a second round pick.

    The NFL breaks down to two things:
    1. Protect your quarterback
    2. Get the other team's quarterback
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

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    Re: Thornton Blogs on pick #6

    I'm officially on the BJ Raji bandwagon. I really think Raji, Sims, Peko would be a pretty damn good rotation and would help to make everyone else on the defense better.
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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Thornton Blogs on pick #6

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    WMR, I have to disagree with you about the LB position. It all starts up front. Run stuffing DTs and pass rushing DEs, that is where the playmakers reside. I like Maualuga, but I don't want to spend a top 6 pick on him, when you have players available that fill needs, and likely qualify as best player available as well. I would rather have an OT with the first pick, and James Laurinitis with the second pick, provided he slides, than Maualuga and the Bengals typical crapshoot of a second round pick.

    The NFL breaks down to two things:
    1. Protect your quarterback
    2. Get the other team's quarterback
    Well I think you meant to respond too me. I agree that it starts up front but LB's are nearly as important. These are the only guys on the field who consistently have to rush the passer/tackle/cover. When your DL can keep lineman off them and the secondary covers well then these guys are the ones that have the opportunity to create turnovers. I think you can do fine without great LB's and you can't without a DL, however when you have both it breeds an environment of opportunity.

    The only DL that IMO is even close to being worthy at that pick is Raji and maybe Maybin (who might eventually be an excellent DE or 3-4 OLB). Not only that but we already have all 4 starters accross the DL and we are a bit long in the tooth at and/or short talent at MLB. Now that said I wouldn't mind Raji if they think he will work once he gets paid (I'm not so sure) because he's one heck of a player when he's working for it. But so was Big Daddy once upon a time. Rey is a bit safer but he's one of the most safe/high impact types I have ever seen in the draft.

    Of course if they decide to go offense then more power to them but I just don't think any of the OT's are as sure a bet as Rey and hopefully we won't pick a WR or RB that high.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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    Re: Thornton Blogs on pick #6

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    Even if it is technically a "reach" in the eyes of the "experts", I'd rather draft a guy like Rey who you know will be quality for many seasons to come.

    I too believe Rey's stock will rise b/f draft day.

    Would I feel confident that he'll still be on the board if we traded down to, say, #15? No, I wouldn't, and how much would we gain from dropping those nine spots and is it worth it if we lose out on the top-end player that we really want?
    What, too lazy to type "before", WMR?

    Here I am scanning thru posts and I see "b/f draft day" and I'm asking myself "What the heck does a boyfriend have to do with draft day?"

    Nice job, ya got me...

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    Re: Thornton Blogs on pick #6

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Well I think you meant to respond too me. I agree that it starts up front but LB's are nearly as important. These are the only guys on the field who consistently have to rush the passer/tackle/cover. When your DL can keep lineman off them and the secondary covers well then these guys are the ones that have the opportunity to create turnovers. I think you can do fine without great LB's and you can't without a DL, however when you have both it breeds an environment of opportunity.

    The only DL that IMO is even close to being worthy at that pick is Raji and maybe Maybin (who might eventually be an excellent DE or 3-4 OLB). Not only that but we already have all 4 starters accross the DL and we are a bit long in the tooth at and/or short talent at MLB. Now that said I wouldn't mind Raji if they think he will work once he gets paid (I'm not so sure) because he's one heck of a player when he's working for it. But so was Big Daddy once upon a time. Rey is a bit safer but he's one of the most safe/high impact types I have ever seen in the draft.

    Of course if they decide to go offense then more power to them but I just don't think any of the OT's are as sure a bet as Rey and hopefully we won't pick a WR or RB that high.
    We have the starters, but for the most part the talent simply isn't there. Odom and Geathers aren't exactly passrush specialists. Sims is pretty much wait and see and Peko could probably flourish in a 3/4 scheme.

    I agree with you on linebacker being a weakness, especially when you consider Jeanty and Dhani Jones are our starters there, but IMO we could likely find somebody in the second or third round that could provide a solid impact.
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