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Thread: Best player ever per position (positional players for now)

  1. #1
    Battle Toad Historian thatcoolguy_22's Avatar
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    Best player ever per position (positional players for now)

    1B Albert Pujols career OPS+170 (I know I will catch flack for this one)
    Best Season
    2008-.357/.462/.653 OPS+190


    2B Roger Hornsby career OPS+175
    Best Season
    1924- .424/.507/.696 OPS+222



    3B Mike Schmidt career OPS+147
    Best Season
    1980- .286/.380/.624 OPS+171


    SS- Honus Wagner OPS+150
    Best Season
    1908- .354/.415/.542 OPS+205


    LF- Babe Ruth career OPS+207
    Best Season
    1920- .376/.533/.849 OPS+256


    CF-Willie Mays career OPS+156
    Best Season
    1965- .317/.398/.645 OPS+184


    RF- Ted Williams career OPS+191
    Best Season
    1941- .317/.398/.645 OPS+184


    C- Johnny Bench career OPS+126
    Best Season
    1972- 270/379/541 OPS+166



    What do you guys think? I will list my pitching rotation tomorrow.
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    Member mroby85's Avatar
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    Re: Best player ever per position (positional players for now)

    I'd probably go with Barry Bonds in LF, and A-Rod at 3B.

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    Member Stephenk29's Avatar
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    Re: Best player ever per position (positional players for now)

    Lou Gehrig has to take 1rst base. He has some GODLY seasons. You could pick any of four to five to match Pujols best year if not better. Here is a taste.

    '31 Gehrig

    .341 avg 46 bombs 184 RBIS .446 OBP .662 SLG

    OR as I would say

    '30 Gehrig

    .379 AVG 41 Bombs 174 RBIS .473 OBP .721 SLG

    Take a gander at '27 when his OPS+ was 221. His only MVP year of these three.
    "The Hall of Fame is there to keep alive the memory of people. You don't need to do that with people like Buck [O'Niel] and Joe [Nuxhall]. Nobody's forgetting those guys."

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    Re: Best player ever per position (positional players for now)

    I'd probably go with Barry Bonds in LF, and A-Rod at 3B
    On the all asterisk team, maybe.

    Seriously though, Bonds over the Babe? Ruth's career OPS - 1.159. WOW.

    Plus Bonds, well, you know....
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    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Best player ever per position (positional players for now)

    My sister in law in Boston will hate me, but I think you have to go with Aaron over Ted Williams in RF. Hands down, Williams is the best hitter this game ever saw. But Aaron was a much more complete ballplayer. He was a 9 time Gold Glove winner, and stole 240 bases at a 76% rate. That was before players stole a lot of bases (Mays only had 338). Because he played at the same time as Willie Mays, and because he has the HR record, people forget that he was five tool player too.

    Thanks for the list! Great topic of discussion!
    Last edited by TheNext44; 02-14-2009 at 01:43 AM.

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    Re: Best player ever per position (positional players for now)

    Pretty good. I would go with Gehrig and A Roid at the corners however.

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    Battle Toad Historian thatcoolguy_22's Avatar
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    Re: Best player ever per position (positional players for now)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    My sister in law in Boston will hate me, but I think you have to go with Aaron over Ted Williams in RF. Hands down, Williams is the best hitter this game ever saw. But Aaron was a much more complete ballplayer. He was a 9 time Gold Glove winner, and stole 240 bases at a 76% rate. That was before players stole a lot of bases (Mays only had 338). Because he played at the same time as Willie Mays, and because he has the HR record, people forget that he was five tool player too.

    Thanks for the list! Great topic of discussion!
    I debated Williams vs Aaron with my co worker for about an hour before I decided on the splendid splinter.

    Williams
    -Won the Triple Crown Twice and was .002 away from a 3rd time.
    -5 prime age seasons lost. He missed his age 24-26 season due to WWII and 33/34 age season due to the Korean conflict.
    -Career OPS of 1.116
    -521 HR and 1839 RBI

    He is considered by many to be the greatest hitter to ever play the game and I just can't give RF to Aaron. 5 tools or not, Ted starts for me

    Also Aaron for his career had a .929 OPS and a 155 OPS+. He never OPS+ over 200. Aaron's best season he ever played he had a 194 OPS+. Ted Williams averaged 191 for his entire career!




    EDIT: I just found this article on Ted Williams

    Amazing
    Last edited by thatcoolguy_22; 02-14-2009 at 06:09 AM.
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    Re: Best player ever per position (positional players for now)

    FWIW, I can't give RF to Aaron or Williams. Ted Williams played 90+% of his games in leftfield. Hank Aaron did play 75% of his games in rightfield. But Babe Ruth played almost half the time in left and half in right. Ruth has to be in the mix and Williams has the edge over Aaron. So I'd have to give the nod to Williams in left and Ruth in right
    Last edited by redsfandan; 02-14-2009 at 05:24 AM.
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    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
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    Re: Best player ever per position (positional players for now)

    Great list, though I personally have to inserts one member of the BRM and remove another. Joe Morgan gets the nod at second base from me--his fielding was vastly superior to Raja's and Hornsby himself once said fielding wasn't "his dish." I would have to take Bench out and put Mickey Cochrane behind the plate.

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    Re: Best player ever per position (positional players for now)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephenk29 View Post
    Lou Gehrig has to take 1rst base. He has some GODLY seasons. You could pick any of four to five to match Pujols best year if not better. Here is a taste.

    '31 Gehrig

    .341 avg 46 bombs 184 RBIS .446 OBP .662 SLG

    OR as I would say

    '30 Gehrig

    .379 AVG 41 Bombs 174 RBIS .473 OBP .721 SLG

    Take a gander at '27 when his OPS+ was 221. His only MVP year of these three.
    Who has been the best hitter to protect Pujols?

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    Member mroby85's Avatar
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    Re: Best player ever per position (positional players for now)

    Quote Originally Posted by JBChance View Post
    On the all asterisk team, maybe.

    Seriously though, Bonds over the Babe? Ruth's career OPS - 1.159. WOW.

    Plus Bonds, well, you know....
    Barry Bonds-

    Single Season Home Run Leader 73
    All Time Home Run Leader 762
    7 Time MVP
    13 Time All Star
    8 Time Gold Glove Winner
    only member in the 500/500 club
    2 Time NL Batting Champion
    All Time major league BB's Leader
    12 Silver Sluggers
    Single Season OBP leader (609)

    Babe Ruth
    2 Time All Star
    1 Time MVP
    1 Time Batting Champion

    Is this enough to wipe out OPS, or do I need a longer list?
    Before the Bonds steroid argument comes up, lets remember babe ruth wasn't a saint, he just did things that weren't "performance enhancing" does that really make him any better?
    Last edited by mroby85; 02-14-2009 at 12:04 PM.

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    Re: Best player ever per position (positional players for now)

    I put Manny on that list. His season of .333 44 Homers, 165 RBI, 131 Runs might be one of the greatest seasons offensively of all time.

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    Member Stephenk29's Avatar
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    Re: Best player ever per position (positional players for now)

    Quote Originally Posted by DTCromer View Post
    Who has been the best hitter to protect Pujols?
    Gehrig always hit 4th so wasn't Lou protecting the Babe?
    "The Hall of Fame is there to keep alive the memory of people. You don't need to do that with people like Buck [O'Niel] and Joe [Nuxhall]. Nobody's forgetting those guys."

    - Joe Posnanski

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    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Best player ever per position (positional players for now)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephenk29 View Post
    Gehrig always hit 4th so wasn't Lou protecting the Babe?
    Exactly, which is why his RBI totals are amazing. He hit after Ruth had cleared the bases a lot of the time.

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    Re: Best player ever per position (positional players for now)

    Barry Bonds-

    Single Season Home Run Leader 73
    All Time Home Run Leader 762
    7 Time MVP
    13 Time All Star
    8 Time Gold Glove Winner
    only member in the 500/500 club
    2 Time NL Batting Champion
    All Time major league BB's Leader
    12 Silver Sluggers
    Single Season OBP leader (609)

    Babe Ruth
    2 Time All Star
    1 Time MVP
    1 Time Batting Champion

    Is this enough to wipe out OPS, or do I need a longer list?
    Before the Bonds steroid argument comes up, lets remember babe ruth wasn't a saint, he just did things that weren't "performance enhancing" does that really make him any better?

    Check out this link in Wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_Ruth

    An excerpt:

    Ruth is one of the greatest sports heroes of American culture[1] and has been named the greatest baseball player in history in various surveys and rankings,[2] and his home run hitting prowess and charismatic personality made him a larger than life figure in the "Roaring Twenties".[3] He was the first player to hit 60 home runs in one season (1927), a record which stood for 34 years until broken by Roger Maris in 1961. Ruth's lifetime total of 714 home runs at his retirement in 1935 was a record for 39 years, until broken by Hank Aaron in 1974. Unlike many power hitters, Ruth also hit for average: his .342 lifetime batting is tenth highest in baseball history, and in one season (1923) he hit .393, a Yankee record. His .690 career slugging percentage and 1.164 career on-base plus slugging (OPS) remain the major league records.[3]

    Ruth dominated in the era in which he played. He led the league in home runs during a season twelve times, slugging percentage thirteen times, OPS thirteen times, runs scored eight times, and runs batted in (RBI) six times. Each of those totals represents a modern record (and also an all-time record, except for RBIs).[4] At the time of his retirement, his 714 home runs were not only the record, but that total was 336 more than the next player, Lou Gehrig.[5] He also finished with the most career walks (2062)[6], most career extra base hits (1356)[7], and he is still the only player to have a season with at least 200 hits and 150 walks[8]. In 1936, Ruth became one of the first five players elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame. In 1969, he was named baseball's Greatest Player Ever in a ballot commemorating the 100th anniversary of professional baseball. In 1998, The Sporting News ranked Ruth Number 1 on the list of "Baseball's 100 Greatest Players." In 1999, baseball fans named Ruth to the Major League Baseball All-Century Team.[3]
    Ruth was and is a baseball legend. You can argue about awards and the like (Silver Slugger and Gold Glove didn't even exist then), but it was a completly different era and awards were different. Do a search on MVP to see what I mean. From 1922 to 1929, previous winners were ineligible. That means Ruth couldn't win the award for some of his best years; like 1927 - one of the greatest offensive season of all time.

    Chasing skirt and boozing does not equal cheating. Taking a foreign substance to give you an advantage, that is cheating to me and lots of others. Especially, when called on it, you continue to deny it and won't own up to what you did.

    I'm not saying that Bonds wasn't a great player. I wish that his accomplishments weren't tainted, but they are.

    I think that most would include Ruth in a list like this. I certainly would.
    Last edited by JBChance; 02-14-2009 at 05:24 PM.
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