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Thread: Line up construction

  1. #1
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    Line up construction

    It seems logical that the middle of the order will be
    Votto
    EE
    Bruce

    But who protects Bruce? If Phillips hits 6th, then right handed pitchers will never pitch to Bruce with the out machine on deck. Do you put Phillips 2nd and Dickerson 6th? Or do you put Bruce and Votto back to back?

    Assuming Taveras starts every day and leads off (we know that's going to happen) and Dickerson/Hairston platoon in left.

    I'd say against RHP the best line up would be:

    Taveras
    Dickerson
    Votto
    Bruce
    EE
    Phillips
    Gonzo
    Hernandez

    Against LHP:
    Taveras
    Hairston
    Votto
    EE
    Phillips
    Bruce
    Gonzo
    Hernandez

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  3. #2
    Member DannyB's Avatar
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    Re: Line up construction

    Dusty Baker said that Brandon Phillips will hit fourth -- at least at the start of the year.

    “The way the lineup is right now, yeah,” Baker said.



    Phillips' numbers were down last year from 2007. He hit .288 with 30 home runs and 94 RBI in '07. Last year, he hit .261 with 21 homers and 78.


    From Fay:
    http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs...cincinnati.com

    “Brandon will have a good year," Baker said. "You struggle sometimes a little bit in third or fourth year. Brandon will readjust. Sometimes they wouldn’t throw Brandon a lot of strikes. Sometimes when you’re in the middle of it, you can’t see it. When you’re smart like Brandon, you take some time away and you step back and see things.”

    Taveras
    Gonzales
    Votto
    Phillips
    Bruce
    EE
    left fielder du jour
    Hernandez

  4. #3
    Member Nasty_Boy's Avatar
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    Re: Line up construction

    Dusty just makes stuff up. You sometimes struggle in your 3rd-4th year... Really? Or is it that you struggle because you're not a great hitter and you can't get it done without 2 sluggers being your bookends? Brandon doesn't fit the best as a cleanup hitter and he mentally he can't handle the 4 hole because he tries to become a slugger, which he is not. Put him in the 2 hole, tell him his job is to get on base and not hit HRs, then see if he adjusts. If not hit him 6th, the spot he should probably be in.

    Once again the Reds run production will suffer because we have guys like Edwin that get on base hitting too low in the order. Hit Votto 3rd, Edwin 4th, and Jay 5th... We know Willy will hit 1st and JHJ will probably hit 2nd, but Phillips should be in the 6 hole especially against RHP.
    I know a lot of people are talking about his on-base percentage (.308 in 2008), but I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage. - Our Beloved Manager

  5. #4
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    Re: Line up construction

    I definitely agree with those who say Brandon's approach at the plate changed for the worse when he became the cleanup hitter. It's a no-brainer to get him out of the key power spots in the middle of the order to see if you can get him to use the whole field again, instead of trying to pull everything like he did last year.

  6. #5
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    Re: Line up construction

    I will never get the love affair with Phillip's bat. I heard someone say this morning that the problem is that he is a #2 hitter and he got stuck hitting cleanup. Him and his abysmal OBP shouldn't hit higher than 6th, ever. If you need to break up Votto and Bruce then your only choice is EE since he will have higher OBP and Slug than Phillips.

    I like BP but he's a defensive specialist with some pop, that's it.

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    Re: Line up construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Nasty_Boy View Post
    Or is it that you struggle because you're not a great hitter and you can't get it done without 2 sluggers being your bookends?
    Who are these 2 sluggers you speak of?

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    Re: Line up construction

    You can rip BP for his hitting, but he made alot of highlight reel plays last year. He can be amazing in the field.
    Who's on first?

  9. #8
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    Re: Line up construction

    Phillips is not a bad cleanup hitter against lefties. Baker should just switch him and Bruce against righties, and everything would be fine. Not sure he will do that, but either way, I have always felt that lineup construction is over-rated. Just make sure you play the right guys at at the right time, and the lineup is not that meaningful.

    I also think that Baker was saying more that he wished he had a true cleanup hitter, but that Phillips was as good as anyone they have now, which is kinda true. EE might be better, but we really don't know.

  10. #9
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    Re: Line up construction

    I honestly don't understand this myth that Bruce and Votto need to broken apart in the lineup. Score runs early, and you don't have to worry about an opposition's LOOGY in the later innings. 3-4-5, in my opinion, should be Votto-Bruce-EE or Bruce-Votto-EE. BP should be 6th.

    If you absolutely must breakup the lefties, then Bruce-EE-Votto or Votto-EE-Bruce just makes too much sense to wrap around Dusty's brain.

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    Re: Line up construction

    Quote Originally Posted by OesterPoster View Post
    I honestly don't understand this myth that Bruce and Votto need to broken apart in the lineup. Score runs early, and you don't have to worry about an opposition's LOOGY in the later innings. 3-4-5, in my opinion, should be Votto-Bruce-EE or Bruce-Votto-EE. BP should be 6th.

    If you absolutely must breakup the lefties, then Bruce-EE-Votto or Votto-EE-Bruce just makes too much sense to wrap around Dusty's brain.
    I still want Bruce and Votto hitting back to back vs RHP regardless and say "screw what might happen 2 abs from now" but thats not whos leading the Reds. We have a manager who's stuck in the 1980s.
    Last edited by Slyder; 02-19-2009 at 04:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by moewan View Post
    Barmaid to patron "Sir you are slurring, I am going to have to cut you off"

    Patron to barmaid "I'm not slurring, I'm speaking in cursive"


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    Re: Line up construction

    Dream Line Up

    1. Taveras CF
    2. Phillips 2B
    3. Votto 1B
    4. Ramirez LF
    5. Bruce RF
    6. Encarnacion 3B
    7. Hernandez C
    8. Gonzalez SS

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    Re: Line up construction

    I always thought that bp would be a perfect 2 hitter because of his speed, but then I checked the numbers. His obp is too low for that spot. I do believe that EE is the best fit for cleanup, with this lineup. If he can be the right/center field hitter that dusty was talking about. His numbers before this 08 were really good with runners in scoring position. I think that if we Taveras, and JHJ or Hopper can get on base, and create like I think they can then we have a really good 1 through 6. as long as we bat Gonzo 8.

    My dream lineup (with this roster) is:
    1. Taveras cf
    2. Hopper/ JHJ Lf
    3. Votto 1b (he earned this spot last yr, period.)
    4. EE 3rd
    5. Bruce RF
    6. BP 2nd
    7. Hernandez C
    8. Gonzo

    Hopefully this will take pressure off BP and Hernandez so they can have bounce back yrs. If this happens, then we should be better than any Reds team from this century.

  14. #13
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    Re: Line up construction

    Quote Originally Posted by DTCromer View Post
    Who are these 2 sluggers you speak of?
    Phillips had his best year at the plate when he had Dunn and Jr having big years on each side of him. In the 2nd half last season you couldn't tell the difference between his and Cpat's numbers. He's an outmaker that has some pop. Put him 6th and forget about it... if you want to hit him 2-3-4 against lefties that's fine. But against RHP he is an out waiting to happen.
    I know a lot of people are talking about his on-base percentage (.308 in 2008), but I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage. - Our Beloved Manager

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    Re: Line up construction

    Ok, I didn't know if you were actually saying Griffey was a slugger last year.

  16. #15
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    Re: Line up construction

    My lineup with the current roster.

    vs. RHP
    Taveras CF
    Dickerson LF
    Votto 1B
    Bruce RF
    Edwin 3B
    Phillips 2B
    Hernandez C
    Gonzo SS


    vs. LHP
    Hairston CF
    Phillips 2B
    Votto 1B
    Edwin 3B
    Gomes LF
    Bruce RF
    Hernandez C
    Gonzo SS

    I think Hairston and Taveras are interchangable and I would play the guy that's hot, providing either ever got hot. I would move Bruce up against LHP if he starts to show signs of improvement.
    I know a lot of people are talking about his on-base percentage (.308 in 2008), but I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage. - Our Beloved Manager


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