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Thread: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

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  1. #1
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Baker: Phillips will hit clean up
    Posted by JohnFay at 2/19/2009 10:19 AM EST on Cincinnati.com

    Dusty Baker said that Brandon Phillips will hit fourth -- at least at the start of the year.

    “The way the lineup is right now, yeah,” Baker said.

    Phillips' numbers were down last year from 2007. He hit .288 with 30 home runs and 94 RBI in '07. Last year, he hit .261 with 21 homers and 78.

    “Brandon will have a good year," Baker said. "You struggle sometimes a little bit in third or fourth year. Brandon will readjust. Sometimes they wouldn’t throw Brandon a lot of strikes. Sometimes when you’re in the middle of it, you can’t see it. When you’re smart like Brandon, you take some time away and you step back and see things.”

    http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs...cincinnati.com

    I miss Adam Dunn.

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    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    No surprise there.

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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up



    This ticks me off. Phillips hitting cleanup vs LHP? Fine. Against RHP? Absolutely not. This offense is already going to have some problems scoring runs and it doesn't help matters that our manager can't fill out a decent lineup. Phillips need to either hit second where he'll maybe stop swinging for the fences, or sixth. Brandon Phillips is not a cleanup hitter and it's a shame Dusty Baker doesn't realize this.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Brandon is aggressive. Cleanup hitters should be aggressive.

    Well, we have our most likely 1-4 for OD now.

    Taveras
    Hairston
    Votto
    Phillips
    Last edited by BRM; 02-19-2009 at 11:06 AM.

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    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    Brandon is aggressive. Cleanup hitters should be aggressive.

    Well, we have our most likely 1-4 for OD now.

    Taveras
    Hairston
    Votto
    Phillips
    Looks like Bruce will be leading off the 2nd a whole lot.

    Pray for good pitching!

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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    Well, we have our most likely 1-4 for OD now.

    Taveras
    Hairston
    Votto
    Phillips
    you're probably right there with the 1-3, which is exactly why Bruce will be hitting 5th, gotta split those lefties!
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    Brandon is aggressive. Cleanup hitters should be aggressive.

    Well, we have our most likely 1-4 for OD now.

    Taveras
    Hairston
    Votto
    Phillips
    Since you've got JHJ hitting secomd, I guess you're saying he will be playing SS instead of LF?

    If I had to bat Phillips 4th, I'd go ,,,

    CF Dickerson/Taveras
    3B Encarnacion
    1B Votto
    2B Phillips
    RF Bruce
    LF Jones (or) Ward/Gomes
    CA Hernandez
    SS Gonzalez (or) Hairston (or) Keppinger

    ... I'm not Dusty though and Taveras will be there everyday. I'm just hoping for Dickerson in LF

    If they wanted more speed at the top and Taveras plays everyday, I'd go...

    CF Taveras
    LF Dickerson
    3B Encarnacion
    1B Votto
    2B Phillips
    RF Bruce
    CA Hernandez
    SS Gonzalez (or) Hairston (or) Keppinger
    Last edited by corkedbat; 02-19-2009 at 11:34 AM.

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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by corkedbat View Post
    Since you've got JHJ hitting secomd, I guess you're saying he will be playing SS instead of LF?
    No, I have him in LF. The Reds will likely face a lefty on OD in Johan Santana. Hopefully Dusty has abandoned his "SS hits second" rule this year.

  9. #9
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    Brandon is aggressive. Cleanup hitters should be aggressive.

    Well, we have our most likely 1-4 for OD now.

    Taveras
    Hairston
    Votto
    Phillips
    Out Out Walk Out.

    Great 1st innings are ahead!

    EE would be a better choice, as would Bruce, heck the monster in LF probably will be as well.
    Go Gators!

  10. #10
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post


    This ticks me off. Phillips hitting cleanup vs LHP? Fine. Against RHP? Absolutely not. This offense is already going to have some problems scoring runs and it doesn't help matters that our manager can't fill out a decent lineup. Phillips need to either hit second where he'll maybe stop swinging for the fences, or sixth. Brandon Phillips is not a cleanup hitter and it's a shame Dusty Baker doesn't realize this.
    I am trying to reconcile this whole thing.

    I think that I am only going to watch when the Reds play against left handed pitching, I am not sure how I am going to work it out with releif pitchers coming in that might be left handed following right handed pitching.

    Lineup Vs. Right Handed Pitching

    Willy Taveras CF VS Right Handed Pitching
    2008 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .245 .303 .291 .594 AB - 351
    2007 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .304 .351 .357 .708 AB - 283
    2006 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .285 .338 .345 .683 AB - 411

    Alex Gonzalez SS VS Right Handed Pitching
    2007 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .287 .329 .511 .840 AB - 282
    2006 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .244 .282 .389 .671 AB - 262
    2005 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .277 .329 .383 .712 AB - 347

    Joey Votto 1B VS Right Handed Pitching
    2008 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .299 .370 .510 .880 AB - 355
    2007 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .345 .387 .638 1.025 AB - 58

    Brandon Phillips 2B VS Right Handed Pitching
    2008 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .247 .293 .383 .676 AB - 397
    2007 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .262 .310 .428 .738 AB - 442
    2006 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .268 .315 .429 .744 AB - 399

    Edwin Encarnacion 3B VS Right Handed Pitching
    2008 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .235 .315 .450 .765 AB - 362
    2007 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .291 .346 .444 .790 AB - 347
    2006 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .287 .355 .478 .833 AB - 293

    Jay Bruce RF VS Right Handed Pitching
    2008 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .286 .340 .529 .869 AB - 276

    Left Field - Ward, Jones, Hairston, Dickerson, Gomes, ????????????

    Ramon Hernandez C Vs. Right Handed Pitching
    2008 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .245 .305 .421 .726 AB - 318
    2007 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .261 .334 .366 .700 AB - 268
    2006 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .270 .324 .444 .768 AB - 374


    Lineup Vs. Left Handed Pitching

    Willy Taveras CF VS Left Handed Pitching
    2008 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .266 .321 .313 .634 AB - 128
    2007 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .371 .417 .461 .878 AB - 89
    2006 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .254 .318 .314 .632 AB - 118

    Alex Gonzalez SS VS Left Handed Pitching
    2007 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .234 .315 .360 .675 AB - 111
    2006 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .278 .333 .413 .746 AB - 126
    2005 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .216 .278 .307 .585 AB - 88

    Joey Votto 1B VS Left Handed Pitching
    2008 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .292 .365 .497 .862 AB - 171
    2007 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .304 .351 .357 .708 AB - 26

    Brandon Phillips 2B VS Left Handed Pitching
    2008 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .296 .358 .586 .944 AB - 162
    2007 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .341 .378 .606 .984 AB - 208
    2006 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .299 .351 .423 .774 AB - 137

    Edwin Encarnacion 3B VS Left Handed Pitching
    2008 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .292 .401 .507 .908 AB - 144
    2007 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .284 .378 .426 .804 AB - 155
    2006 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .248 .368 .460 .828 AB - 113

    Jay Bruce RF VS Left Handed Pitching
    2008 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .190 .263 .299 .562 AB - 137

    Left Field - Ward, Jones, Hairston, Dickerson, Gomes, ????????????

    Ramon Hernandez C Vs. Left Handed Pitching
    2008 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .283 .316 .372 .688 AB - 145
    2007 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .250 .327 .427 .754 AB - 96
    2006 - AVG OBP SLG OPS - .291 .393 .583 .976 AB - 127
    Last edited by Spring~Fields; 02-19-2009 at 12:18 PM.

  11. #11
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post


    This ticks me off. Phillips hitting cleanup vs LHP? Fine. Against RHP? Absolutely not. This offense is already going to have some problems scoring runs and it doesn't help matters that our manager can't fill out a decent lineup. Phillips need to either hit second where he'll maybe stop swinging for the fences, or sixth. Brandon Phillips is not a cleanup hitter and it's a shame Dusty Baker doesn't realize this.
    Regardless of the handedness of the pitcher, Phillips should never bat ahead of cleanup. His less than stellar OBP just doesn't make sense to bat him any higher than cleanup.

    Against RHP, Phillips should bat no higher than 5th, b/c his splits vs RHP show his true weakness, aka hitting RHP pitching.

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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Regardless of the handedness of the pitcher, Phillips should never bat ahead of cleanup. His less than stellar OBP just doesn't make sense to bat him any higher than cleanup.

    Against RHP, Phillips should bat no higher than 5th, b/c his splits vs RHP show his true weakness, aka hitting RHP pitching.
    Batting Phillips second may get him out of the mindset that he needs to swings for the fences all the time. Ideally he would hit sixth, but if he's going to hit in the top four spots I'd prefer it be second. If he could get his OBP up in the .340 area he'd make a very good #2 hitter with his speed and power.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  13. #13
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Batting Phillips second may get him out of the mindset that he needs to swings for the fences all the time. Ideally he would hit sixth, but if he's going to hit in the top four spots I'd prefer it be second. If he could get his OBP up in the .340 area he'd make a very good #2 hitter with his speed and power.
    It might cause Phillips to grow into being a more disciplined batter to, and then more productive batter should naturally follow. The manager wants speed up in his one and two slots, so why not, especially against left handed pitching.

    We each know that there is career stats for all the players showing where they have performed best in the past, in what batting position, and against either the left handed pitching, right handed pitching or both. Bat them individually where their career numbers indicate that they perform their best on a higher percentage of times.

    Hasn't Ward and Jones shown some ability to hit right handers and with some power in the past?

    Might as well toss in the other's splits, maybe there is some positives to be uncovered yet.

    Daryle Ward
    2008 vs. Left .200 .273 .200 .473 vs. Right .217 .324 .424 .748
    2007 vs. Left .250 .400 .375 .775 vs. Right .333 .439 .539 .978
    2006 vs. Left .059 .158 .059 .217 vs. Right .345 .412 .619 1.031

    Jacque Jones
    2008 vs. Left .000 .063 .000 .063 vs. Right .168 .263 .238 .501
    2007 vs. Left .295 .353 .410 .763 vs. Right .283 .332 .397 .729
    2006 vs. Left .234 .261 .416 .677 vs. Right .303 .358 .528 .886

    Jonny Gomes
    2008 vs. Left .182 .281 .424 .705 vs. Right .182 .286 .309 .595
    2007 vs. Left .313 .376 .542 .918 vs. Right .218 .302 .429 .731
    2006 vs. Left .297 .438 .614 1.052 vs. Right .187 .282 .366 .648

    Jerry Hairston Jr.
    2008 vs. Left .345 .418 .548 .966 vs. Right .316 .366 .458 .824
    2007 vs. Left .228 .262 .304 .566 vs. Right .150 .237 .275 .512
    2006 vs. Left .153 .228 .167 .395 vs. Right .245 .302 .316 .618

    Chris Dickerson
    2008 vs. Left .286 .423 .429 .852 vs. Right .309 .411 .654 1.065

    Jeff Keppinger
    2008 vs. Left .360 .412 .489 .901 vs. Right .225 .265 .284 .549
    2007 vs. Left .362 .421 .565 .986 vs. Right .320 .392 .442 .834
    2006 vs. Left .222 .300 .407 .707 vs. Right .303 .343 .394 .737

    Ryan Hanigan
    2008 vs. Left .237 .293 .342 .635 vs. Right .298 .421 .383 .804
    Last edited by Spring~Fields; 02-19-2009 at 07:32 PM.

  14. #14
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Batting Phillips second may get him out of the mindset that he needs to swings for the fences all the time. Ideally he would hit sixth, but if he's going to hit in the top four spots I'd prefer it be second. If he could get his OBP up in the .340 area he'd make a very good #2 hitter with his speed and power.
    I hear ya OBM, but that's a big if.

    Only is his career year of 2007 has BP OBP'd North of .330.

    In his other "full" seasons, he OBP'd .242, .324 & .312 in 2003, 2006 and 2008 respectively.

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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Baker: Phillips will hit clean up
    Posted by JohnFay at 2/19/2009 10:19 AM EST on Cincinnati.com

    Dusty Baker said that Brandon Phillips will hit fourth -- at least at the start of the year.

    “The way the lineup is right now, yeah,” Baker said.

    Phillips' numbers were down last year from 2007. He hit .288 with 30 home runs and 94 RBI in '07. Last year, he hit .261 with 21 homers and 78.

    “Brandon will have a good year," Baker said. "You struggle sometimes a little bit in third or fourth year. Brandon will readjust. Sometimes they wouldn’t throw Brandon a lot of strikes. Sometimes when you’re in the middle of it, you can’t see it. When you’re smart like Brandon, you take some time away and you step back and see things.”

    http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs...cincinnati.com

    Correct, Dusty. They weren't throwing him strikes. Because he was SWINGING AT THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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