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Thread: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

  1. #31
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    I wonder if Dusty's head would explode if someone asked him if he'd ever looked at a batter's splits.
    This is what I want to know. More to the point, has any reporter actually thought to ask the question, especially as it relates to Phillips batting cleanup? Dusty might swallow his toothpick.
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  3. #32
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Yep. And in a perfect world, we have better options for cleanup than Bruce, EdE, and Phillips (Assuming Votto bats 3rd). None of those 3 guys gets me excited as a cleanup hitter.
    I think Votto should bat fourth. But I'd be okay with Bruce doing it.

  4. #33
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I think Votto should bat fourth. But I'd be okay with Bruce doing it.
    I personally don't have a problem with hitting Votto and Bruce 3-4 against RHP. Attack the starter early. Why put a weak stick in the middle of them (BP vs RHP is a weak stick)?

  5. #34
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    For arguments sake who should hit 4th? IMO Votto is by far your best all around hitter and should bat in the 3 hole. His splits are even and I don't see anyone who will supplant him from that roll. If you subscribe to breaking up the lefties in the middle of the order then you have Votto, R, Bruce. That basically leaves two right handed bats in Edwin and Phillips. I don't put Edwin into the 4 hole until he proves he can handle it. Until he proves that he will become a more consistent hitter. Until he drives the ball all over the field like he says he will. Phillips isn't ideal but may be the best option until Edwin replaces him.

  6. #35
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Breaking up lefties--or righties--is stupid and Phillips has ALREADY proven that he, unequivocally, stinks versus RHP.

    Get your best bats the most amount of at-bats. What an insane concept.

    The fact that Dusty wants to blame his struggles on some sort of mysterious 3rd or 4th year malady makes me want to laugh. Or cry.
    Last edited by WMR; 02-19-2009 at 02:50 PM.
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  7. #36
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    For arguments sake who should hit 4th? IMO Votto is by far your best all around hitter and should bat in the 3 hole. His splits are even and I don't see anyone who will supplant him from that roll. If you subscribe to breaking up the lefties in the middle of the order then you have Votto, R, Bruce. That basically leaves two right handed bats in Edwin and Phillips. I don't put Edwin into the 4 hole until he proves he can handle it. Until he proves that he will become a more consistent hitter. Until he drives the ball all over the field like he says he will. Phillips isn't ideal but may be the best option until Edwin replaces him.


    Edwin is a better hitter against RH pitching than Phillips, end of discussion...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  8. #37
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post


    Edwin is a better hitter against RH pitching than Phillips, end of discussion...
    disagree.

    IMO EE has had problems handling stress. Putting him in the #4 slot is more stressfull that putting him in the #6 slot.

    The Reds do not have an ideal #4 hitter.
    Putting BP there makes him want to swing for the fences.
    Putting EE there puts more pressure on him.
    Pick your poison.
    .

  9. #38
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Edwin actually has better career numbers in the 4 hole than hitting 6th. In less than half the plate appearances though.

    Career #4: .839 OPS (283 PA)
    Career #6: .823 OPS (601 PA)

  10. #39
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    disagree.

    IMO EE has had problems handling stress. Putting him in the #4 slot is more stressfull that putting him in the #6 slot.

    The Reds do not have an ideal #4 hitter.
    Putting BP there makes him want to swing for the fences.
    Putting EE there puts more pressure on him.
    Pick your poison.
    EE's career numbers in the 4 hole

    263 .357 .481 .839 283 PA's.

    BP's numbers
    .288 .337 .484 .821
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  11. #40
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    disagree.

    IMO EE has had problems handling stress. Putting him in the #4 slot is more stressfull that putting him in the #6 slot.

    The Reds do not have an ideal #4 hitter.
    Putting BP there makes him want to swing for the fences.
    Putting EE there puts more pressure on him.
    Pick your poison.
    Thats the way I see it. If I were the manager I would have concerns about Edwin handling the pressure of batting 4th. Why not put him in a less pressure of a roll to start the season off? If Edwin is more productive hitting later on in the order it doesn't make sense to slot him 4th if his production decreases.

  12. #41
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Thats the way I see it. If I were the manager I would have concerns about Edwin handling the pressure of batting 4th. Why not put him in a less pressure of a roll to start the season off? If Edwin is more productive hitting later on in the order it doesn't make sense to slot him 4th if his production decreases.
    His production doesn't decrease when he is slotted 4th. His numbers show that.

  13. #42
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    EE's career numbers in the 4 hole

    263 .357 .481 .839 283 PA's.

    BP's numbers
    .288 .337 .484 .821
    And in '06 - the season EE got most of his time in the 4-spot - he put up the following line:

    .299/.374/.569 - .944 OPS

    But if we still don't want EE in the 4-spot, fine. Let BP hit cleanup against lefties and let Votto or Bruce do it against righties. How hard is that? Why does Dusty insist on penciling Phillips into the cleanup spot regardless of matchup? (Rhetorical question.)
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  14. #43
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    His production doesn't decrease when he is slotted 4th. His numbers show that.
    He has less than 300 plate appearances in the 4th hole. I wouldn't exactly consider that a large enough sample size. Couple that with the fact that the Reds will need to count on Edwin more this year than any in the past. In previous years he was the 3rd or 4th player the Reds would count on for runs. Now he will be counted on heavily. I just don't put him in that roll until he shows that he is able to handle the increased pressure.

  15. #44
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I think Votto should bat fourth. But I'd be okay with Bruce doing it.

    That's a reasonable suggestion, given the alternatives. The problem is that Bruce has flashes of goodness, but his overall season last year wasn't that much to get excited about.

    I'm not sure I bat Bruce 3rd or 4th based on potential .. yet.

    I do agree that Phillips isn't the ideal choice to bat 4th. I guess EdE or maybe Gomez would be better, although neither of those two are that exciting either.
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    Re: Baker: Phillips will hit clean up

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    That's a reasonable suggestion, given the alternatives. The problem is that Bruce has flashes of goodness, but his overall season last year wasn't that much to get excited about.

    I'm not sure I bat Bruce 3rd or 4th based on potential .. yet.

    I do agree that Phillips isn't the ideal choice to bat 4th. I guess EdE or maybe Gomez would be better, although neither of those two are that exciting either.
    I'm a simple man; by and large I want the guy with the most natural pop hitting fourth unless there's a guy with a ton of natural pop and an excellent eye who could go there instead.

    Votto and Bruce have the most natural thunder on the team, plus they bat lefthanded--GAB is of course a lefthanded hitter's paradise.

    Phillips makes no sense on a ton of levels: incidental pop, poor eye being the most important ones. Encarnacion's not an ideal choice either, though.
    Last edited by Falls City Beer; 02-19-2009 at 03:52 PM.


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